Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

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TATH
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Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

Hall friends,

I can use som help with Threadmiling a 1/4"port for one of my distro plates that i want to make.

I already am able to make M4 thread in 8mm acrylic pannels.
The only thing that is missing are the setting for my 1/4"ports. That thread must be 1/4" bsp
i got a tip from someone that i have to get this threading tool that is the closed.

P1.25 60 degree diam 6mmx20xd6x60 (length)
Dont ask me about the right feed and speed (still learning).

These are the specs that i put in my toolbase.
A friend told me "try and error". I rather do it more save.

Tips and help is verry appriciated. "sorry for my bad englisch/ im dutch".

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Dan O
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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by Dan O »

A simple on-line search for BSP threads will find what you need. It is very important to note that BSP threads are a 55 degree v-form not 60 degree v-form. The thread mills you show are not correct.

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by martin54 »

As has been said if you are wanting to produce a BSP thread then you would need a 55 degree thread cutter.
Are you sure it is a BSP thread? I believe NPT is a common pipe thread on your side of the pond & it's based on a 60 degree thread angle which would fit better with the tip you say you have recieved :lol: :lol:

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TATH
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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

Hallo All,

I received a new Threading tool for the 1/4"ports i have to make in my distro plates.
The brand is Datron and itemnr: 0068450

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I hope that there are people with more brains to help me with the specs i need to put in the tooldatabase.
imperial right!

This is my CNC router 2,2 kw aircooled spindle build in 2016 (getting the parts took me 2 years).

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Threading is for me a complete new world. So it is not that i am lazy but i am not a engineer.

I can use som help with putting in the right numbers. "55 degree i understand :P

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I build the cnc to make parts for my watercooled systems. Over the years i learned allot . No only making parts for my watercooled systems.

Sometimes i make things for college's like this:

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TATH
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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

i think this is the right tab "imperial".
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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by martin54 »

Im not 100% sure about these settings as I can't enter all the settings on the Dalton site for that tool, the software won't allow me to.

I will use the figures & abreviations from their webste so if you want imperial measurements you will need to convert :lol:

Diameter = D1 which is 6mm
Included Angle = W/R which is 55 degrees
No. Flutes = 4
Tool Height = Not listed on the site but it is 2 x L2 which is 1.4mm
Tooth size = This is the one that gets me, D1 is 6mm & D3 (neck) is 3mm so tooths size should be half the difference.
Tooth Offset = L2 which is 0.7mm
Neck length = L3 which is 12mm

Using an offset of 0.7mm & tooth height of 1.4mm it gives a tooth size of 1.345mm rather than the 1.5mm which I was expecting.

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by StuC »

It looks like there may be some issues with the dimensions given in the Datron catalog because some of the values given do not appear to be mathematically possible.

If we take a triangle of half the tooth height which is L2 or 0.7
and a tooth size which as Martin pointed out is half of D1-D3, so (6-3)/2 = 1.5

Then half the tool angle can be calculated as Tan(angle) = 0.7/1.5
Which gives an angle of ~25 degrees meaning the tool angle would be 50 degrees (not 55)

For a 55 degree tool with the given L2 value of 0.7mm the tooth size can be calculated in the same way.
So half the angle of the tool is 27.5 degrees. Therefore:

Tan(27.5) = 0.7 / tooth size which rearranges to:
toothsize = 0.7 / Tan(27.5) giving a tooth size of 1.3347 mm

This can also be seen by just modelling the tooth and measuring the values:
The first image shows that if both dimensions given are correct the tool angle would have to be 50 degrees not 55
Dimensions1.png
The second image shows that if the tool angle and L2 given are correct then the actual tooth size would be 1.334mm.
Dimensions2.png
If you are able to accurately measure the tool it might indicate which of these is correct, alternatively you may want to contact Datron for clarification as the values given don't seem like they can be accurate?

Hope this helps,
Stu

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

Hello all. I was reading Stuc's commentary for a moment and thought back to Alex Banks's video where he visited the Datron factory for a demo on his new milling machine.
I was able to find out the place and a name with the help of the video. Fortunately, google offers a solution and I have an email address. I just sent an email asking for the specs for the Datron 0068450. Hopefully I'll get an answer soon. Ill be back. Greetings from an Aspire fan from Holland.

:)

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by StuC »

I just want to add a little more information to my post above. My post was about how to define the Datron thread mill in our tool database. Looking at the full discussion it seems that you want to create BSP threads so I should however point out that we currently only support the ISO / DIN 13 thread profile in the thread milling toolpath. Using a 55 degree tool with that will allow you to create a thread, and male/female parts that match but it would be neither ISO standard nor BSP/Whitworth.

Stu

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

StuC wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 1:06 pm
I just want to add a little more information to my post above. My post was about how to define the Datron thread mill in our tool database. Looking at the full discussion it seems that you want to create BSP threads so I should however point out that we currently only support the ISO / DIN 13 thread profile in the thread milling toolpath. Using a 55 degree tool with that will allow you to create a thread, and male/female parts that match but it would be neither ISO standard nor BSP/Whitworth.

Stu
Hallo Stu..
(ha ha) the only thing i want is making threaded 1/4" fillports with the tool the adviced me.
So if i have to change a few things in my metric database to make it able thats fine.

I am not a engineer thats why i ask for som help.
I try to measure the tool and put it in a database form and upload it for comment.
At the moment a have also have two Jack Russel pups of 9 weeks that i have to keep a eye on. So it all takes more time then i want. :D
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Ill be back

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by TATH »

Ha ha i was just finishing my story then i pusch the reply button and realise i was already offline.

So whe start all over again.
First i have to thank Martin and Stu pointing me in to the right direction.

For H i measure 1.38mm
For S i measure 1.58mm
For D i measure 5.97mm
My measurements might not be that accurate (new calliper Mitutoyo).

The form below was before i put both your comment together (sorry).
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what do you propose to enter into the database. Feed, speed ..

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by kstrauss »

You wrote "Using a 55 degree tool with that will allow you to create a thread, and male/female parts that match but it would be neither ISO standard nor BSP/Whitworth." It sounds as though the original poster needs the female rather than male thread. Perhaps I'm confused but my understanding is that the female BSP thread is not tapered (BSPP) while the male BSP is tapered (BSPT). If that is correct, why do you need a special toolpath for the female thread? See https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/threads/ for one reference to this matter.

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by martin54 »

From the original post TATH is cutting ports which to me would be female kstrauss.

My understanding over the years has always been that male BSP threads were tapered & female BSP threads could be either parallel or tapered the vast majority of them being parallel :lol: :lol:

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by StuC »

kstrauss wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:31 pm
You wrote "Using a 55 degree tool with that will allow you to create a thread, and male/female parts that match but it would be neither ISO standard nor BSP/Whitworth." It sounds as though the original poster needs the female rather than male thread. Perhaps I'm confused but my understanding is that the female BSP thread is not tapered (BSPP) while the male BSP is tapered (BSPT). If that is correct, why do you need a special toolpath for the female thread? See https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/threads/ for one reference to this matter.
Hi, the reason is that the depth of the thread would be different between BSPP and Metric ISO/UTS/DIN13 threads for the same pitch. The total thread height for ISO threads would be 0.54125 * the thread pitch whereas the total thread height for BSP threads is ~0.603 * the thread pitch. In ISO threads the thread mill is also required to cut deeper into the external thread than the internal whereas they would both be cut to the same depth with BSP threads.

So the problem would be that the threads might not cut as deeply as required for the BSPP profile, you could potentially calculate the difference and use the toolpath fit tolerance to compensate for this but by default it would not create a thread of the correct profile

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Re: Thread Milling 1/4"bsp port for watercooling distro plate

Post by kstrauss »

I assumed that he would ignore VCarve's calculation of thread depth and choose the correct value. Note that VCarve is extremely limited in calculating the depth of even metric threads. The last I checked it doesn't provide for M12-1.50, M12-1.75 and M12-1.25, for example. Choices are even more limited for imperial threads.

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