Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
-
- Vectric Craftsman
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:34 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: eBay special China 3040
Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
I can get bits on Amazon or eBay that are cheaper. How much better are the more expensive (Onsrud) bits? Will an Onsrud stay sharp longer than a comparable cheaper bit? Any particular brands to avoid?
-
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 1717
- Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:14 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: CNC Shark Pro, Probotix Meteor 25" x 50"
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
The reason I buy Onsrud bits is that in my experience that are always the size they claim they are. I've had bits from other manufacturers that came nowhere near the dimensions they claimed. 3/16" is .1875, but one 3/16" whiteside upcut end mill I had alway resulted in loose joints. I finally measured it and found it was .1904. That explained why tenons turned out smaller than expected, and mortises were larger than expected.
4D
4D
- Leo
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 4092
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:02 am
- Model of CNC Machine: 1300 x 1300 x 254 Chinese Made
- Location: East Freetown, Ma.
- Contact:
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
I use SGS a lot. I know it's not well known around the hobby world or the wood world but it is a high quality cutter and VERY well known in the machining world.
I get SGS from "Carbide Depot" dot com. Generally in the $teens$ per 1/4" cutter
SGS is a quality tool. --- generally made for the metal cutting industry
Onsrud is also a quality tool. --- generally made for the wood cutting industry
There are a lot of differences between a low end tool and a quality tool. There is nothing visibly different to the untrained eye, but to an experienced eye, there is much to be seen. Quality of the grinding and sharpening is visible to the experienced eye. Low end cutters will not be up to the same standards as a high end cutter.
Other things that are not visible at all is the quality of the material the cutter is made out of. "CARBIDE" may seem to be just "CARBIDE" - but in reality it is NOT. Carbide comes in many different grades just like steels do. In steels there is Cold Rolled Steel and there are tool steels. You would not want an end mill made out of CRS - but M42 would be good. Carbide is also available in different grades. Low cost cutters, may or may not be quality carbide. High quality cutters are more likely to be good carbide grades.
OK - so - with all that being said - I have and still do use some of the lower cost cutters, with decent results. There is a noticeable difference in cut quality, and longevity of life.
I get SGS from "Carbide Depot" dot com. Generally in the $teens$ per 1/4" cutter
SGS is a quality tool. --- generally made for the metal cutting industry
Onsrud is also a quality tool. --- generally made for the wood cutting industry
There are a lot of differences between a low end tool and a quality tool. There is nothing visibly different to the untrained eye, but to an experienced eye, there is much to be seen. Quality of the grinding and sharpening is visible to the experienced eye. Low end cutters will not be up to the same standards as a high end cutter.
Other things that are not visible at all is the quality of the material the cutter is made out of. "CARBIDE" may seem to be just "CARBIDE" - but in reality it is NOT. Carbide comes in many different grades just like steels do. In steels there is Cold Rolled Steel and there are tool steels. You would not want an end mill made out of CRS - but M42 would be good. Carbide is also available in different grades. Low cost cutters, may or may not be quality carbide. High quality cutters are more likely to be good carbide grades.
OK - so - with all that being said - I have and still do use some of the lower cost cutters, with decent results. There is a noticeable difference in cut quality, and longevity of life.
Imagine the Possibilities of a Creative mind, combined with the functionality of CNC
- sharkcutup
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 2928
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:48 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Shark HD3 Pro Extended Bed with Spindle
- Location: U.S.A.
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
I agree with both Leo and 4DThinker - (well said guys).
You know the old saying 'you get what you pay for'. I have also used cheaper bits and have noticed a difference in the quality of the carvings too. Cheaper bits are great for roughing carved models or even the final cutouts in which tabs are removed and the entire outside surface is sanded anyhow. Of course this also depends on each individual's preferences final product quality too!
I do recommend that when buying the cheaper bits be sure to check the bit dimensions before adding to tool database. These bits are usually the bits that didn't make the Quality cut at the manufacturer but are still saleable bits in another market.
Sharkcutup
You know the old saying 'you get what you pay for'. I have also used cheaper bits and have noticed a difference in the quality of the carvings too. Cheaper bits are great for roughing carved models or even the final cutouts in which tabs are removed and the entire outside surface is sanded anyhow. Of course this also depends on each individual's preferences final product quality too!
I do recommend that when buying the cheaper bits be sure to check the bit dimensions before adding to tool database. These bits are usually the bits that didn't make the Quality cut at the manufacturer but are still saleable bits in another market.
Sharkcutup
V-Carve Pro Tips, Gadget Tips & Videos
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 12.005
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 12.005
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:48 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko 3XXL / Carvewright RevB
- Location: Rockland County, NY USA
- Contact:
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
I have used Precisebits. I like them because the bits are very good quality and they list all the required info for entering their bits into Vectric software. Sometimes that info seems hard to come by?
Check them out at http://precisebits.com
Check them out at http://precisebits.com
- sharkcutup
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 2928
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:48 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Shark HD3 Pro Extended Bed with Spindle
- Location: U.S.A.
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
Just been to their site and the very first thing I had noticed is that they do not mention whether their end mills are up-cut or down-cut end mills. These type of bits do make a difference with their application!!!I have used Precisebits. I like them because the bits are very good quality and they list all the required info for entering their bits into Vectric software. Sometimes that info seems hard to come by?
Check them out at http://precisebits.com
Sharkcutup
V-Carve Pro Tips, Gadget Tips & Videos
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 12.005
YouTube Channel - Sharkcutup CNC
V-Carve Pro 12.005
- adze_cnc
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 4380
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:08 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: AXYZ 4008
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
I just had a quick look at their site and all the pictures I saw were of up-shear cutters. I'd expect that to be "the default" and any mention of down-shear to be an exception.sharkcutup wrote:Just been to their site and the very first thing I had noticed is that they do not mention whether their end mills are up-cut or down-cut end mills.
Sharkcutup
- Rcnewcomb
- Vectric Archimage
- Posts: 5928
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:54 am
- Model of CNC Machine: 24x36 GCnC/WinCNC with ATC
- Location: San Jose, California, USA
- Contact:
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
For production work the job is quoted to include the price of the bits.
I am fortunate to live near an Onsrud distributor who offers me good discounts on some of the more obscure bits (odd sizes) that he has to stock, but for which there is little demand.
Centurion Tools makes some top-notch bits, i.e. you can run them for a long time.
For my own experimentation I will also try out lesser-know/unknown brands and sources. There are some good values to be found.
Seller drillman1 on eBay has some good selections. There are many online sources that may be a good value.
I am fortunate to live near an Onsrud distributor who offers me good discounts on some of the more obscure bits (odd sizes) that he has to stock, but for which there is little demand.
Centurion Tools makes some top-notch bits, i.e. you can run them for a long time.
For my own experimentation I will also try out lesser-know/unknown brands and sources. There are some good values to be found.
Seller drillman1 on eBay has some good selections. There are many online sources that may be a good value.
- Randall Newcomb
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out, another good day in the shop
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out, another good day in the shop
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:03 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: 2 SCM Routech Record 120s(1999, 2001)
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
Gage R&R, measure every tool when it goes into a tool holder to verify.4DThinker wrote:The reason I buy Onsrud bits is that in my experience that are always the size they claim they are. I've had bits from other manufacturers that came nowhere near the dimensions they claimed. 3/16" is .1875, but one 3/16" whiteside upcut end mill I had alway resulted in loose joints. I finally measured it and found it was .1904. That explained why tenons turned out smaller than expected, and mortises were larger than expected.
4D
- scottp55
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 4717
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
- Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP11.5
- Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
+1 on Drillman1 on his Kyocera 1/8" shank bits.
And love my Centurion FEMs.
I DO have a bunch of cheap Amazon and EBay bits that will probably sit in the back of the drawer forever after using them ONCE however.
Don't think I'll ever swap away from my Onsrud engraving bits though...find what works for YOU...and stock up:)
scott
And love my Centurion FEMs.
I DO have a bunch of cheap Amazon and EBay bits that will probably sit in the back of the drawer forever after using them ONCE however.
Don't think I'll ever swap away from my Onsrud engraving bits though...find what works for YOU...and stock up:)
scott
I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.
R.N.
-
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:59 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Custom DIY
- Location: Lake St Clair, MI, USA
- Contact:
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
Another +1 for Drillman1. With small bits you can get good bits for very low prices.
But once you get to 3/8"-1/2" bits, I only buy high quality bits.
But once you get to 3/8"-1/2" bits, I only buy high quality bits.
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com
-
- Vectric Craftsman
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:34 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: eBay special China 3040
Re: Cheaper bits vs Onsrud, etc
ger21 wrote:Another +1 for Drillman1. With small bits you can get good bits for very low prices.
But once you get to 3/8"-1/2" bits, I only buy high quality bits.
I get all my 1/8 bits from drillman1. His selection of larger (1/4 and above) is a bit limited though. But the Onsrud bits he does have are priced good. One thing I do like about Onsrud is that I can look up chip load in the back of the catalog.