Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

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kristenanne77
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Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by kristenanne77 »

After I do a PhotoVCarve, before doing anything, the top feels really rough and gritty. Should I sand this rough stuff off before applying finishing products? Or apply things like stain, sealer etc first and let it soak in before sanding this top?
The reason I ask is that i don't want to sand off too much detail. I have noticed that when I did try sanding this off this "rough top" on a softer wood (using a fine sandpaper) before finishing stains , the sanding would also remove little "chunks" that are part of the carving, essentially making it start to look crappy.

Thanks
K

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by GEdward »

There are so many variables in the entire process that make it impossible to make any one technique the perfect solution. The first thing is to make sure your tools are sharp. With that said, for softer and medium density wood I generally apply shellac, usually diluted with alcohol to help it penetrate, before I do the carve. That helps to reduce the fuzzies and gives the surface some hardness to help support it for light sanding. Another trick I use is to set the Z zero .005 - .010 below the surface of the material to give me some room to sand without sanding off the detail. This also gives you the ability to to enhance and balance some of the detail some degree to suit your taste.

As far as applying stain before or after the carve, it depends on the look you are after. Typically, I don't stain until after the carve. I usually apply a coat of shellac or other sealer after the cut before staining or coloring the carve to prevent bleeding of the colorant into the uncut areas. The exposed end grain in the carve will readily wick the colorant in an unwanted way without sealing it first.

Just a couple of general observations from my limited experience. Good luck and have fun learning.

Ed

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by mtylerfl »

Hi Kristen,

Will you post a couple photos of your project?

Generally, I would recommend applying a 50/50 mix of Zinnser Bulls Eye Seal Coat and Denatured Alcohol to “stiffen” any fuzzies, then lightly sand overall with the 3M radial sanding discs to remove “debris” before finally sealing and glaze-staining a Photo VCarve done on wood.

But, if you have carved too deeply and have tiny, thin detail standing too proud, there is a risk of removing detail you want to retain.

A photo or two of your project might give us a better idea of the best approach to take.
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kristenanne77
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by kristenanne77 »

Here are a few pictures of a simple one I am working on. Bottom picture is the original pic.
Soft pine, nice grain line. I know its not a hardwood, but if I can get decent results on pine, I will be happy. It takes lots of stain colors easily. Unfortunately a little sanding was done after removing from carving bed, but then I stopped and wrote my question before preceding.
Thanks
K

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Colt single action Army Revolver.jpg

kristenanne77
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by kristenanne77 »

GEdward wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:27 pm
" Another trick I use is to set the Z zero .005 - .010 below the surface of the material to give me some room to sand without sanding off the detail. This also gives you the ability to to enhance and balance some of the detail some degree to suit your taste. "
Ed
Can you achieve the same result by just setting the cutting depth to be .005-.010 deeper?

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by mtylerfl »

Hi Kristen,

Thank you for posting the photos.

It’s not quite what I was expecting, but it’s an interesting project. The line spacing is such that most of the detail is lost on the photo you are using. However, the gun will probably look good after applying sealer, then a stain-glaze, then final clear coats. It will be sort of a silhouette of the gun.

I don’t think the text looks good with the technique you are using. I might suggest that you try using a similar stencil-style font, then vcarve the text instead. The text will be much more legible and have a nice “clean” appearance. You may want to experiment with various flat depth settings and running a few Toolpath Previews to find what setting looks the best.

I know these recommendations are not a direct answer to your original sanding question. In this case, I think the gun will be ok, but it will be more of an artistic representation rather than a “realistic” photo rendition. Go ahead and sand any stray fuzzies with the 3M radial discs and rotary tool, or in a pinch, you could use a stiff brush to get rid of most of the “fuzzy debris” before applying your finishing products.
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by GEdward »

Hi Kristen,
I agree with Mike on this one. If you are looking for a more photo realistic appearance then you would need to reduce your cutting depth and decreasing your line spacing. Also, I find that using 60° or less V bits work better in general for getting the most detail. Increasing the cutting depth isn't quite the same as lowering the Z zero. When you increase the cutting depth the program calculates the appropriate Z tool path to reflect the light/dark contrast at any given location. That means that in the lightest colored areas for instance, will always have very little stock removed. Hence, when you sand that same area it is easy to over do it and lose some of the nuance as that area transitions into the darker regions. By lowering the Z zero those same light areas will be cut .005 - .010 deeper, essentially overriding the program's calculations, and thus give you room to sand.
Mike's suggestion to use a V-Carve strategy for the text works if you have V-Carve. If you only have Photo V-Carve then that is not a solution of course. If you don't have V-Carve then it will be a little more challenging to define the text clearly. If it were my project I would run the text as another tool path independent of the picture. Then I would set the cutting parameters for the text with a cross hatch setting. In general, I hate cross hatch but in this case I think it would give you the color saturation you need to clearly define the letters.
One other suggestion I overlooked is to sand the board before you start. That can help the get a little crisper detail overall.

Ed

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by mtylerfl »

Great advice, Ed. I forgot Kristen was using PhotoVCarve and might not have the ability to VCarve the text. Your suggestions will be a great help in making the project turn out better. Thank you for your input!
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by Adrian »

From what has been posted before on other threads Kristen has VCarve as well as PhotoVCarve - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35564&p=259855

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by mtylerfl »

Thank you, Adrian!
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by Charlie_l »

I’m just a casual woodworker.
I would cleanup with a brass brush. Then spray on a little poly or sealer. Followed by wiping on and off a glaze. Then finishing with a poly.
Plus, I like many of the comments made here.
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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by kristenanne77 »

Thanks all!

Yes I have both VCarve and PhotoVcarve.

The reason i like PhotoVCarve for this is because there are more bit choices available.

I did think about using a separate font in VCarve for the lettering but wanted to see the effect in only PhotoVCarve.
For these particular gun pics, I am not looking for a photo realistic picture ... just something a little artistic and different.

I now understand the idea of setting the Z a little lower than surface (.005 - .010), giving me more play area for the sanding the top and still getting detail. I look forward to trying it.
Very clever.

Okay, so for this one I will first sand the top ridges, then apply sanding sealer, and then glaze.
I know I will lose "chunks" of detail when sanding the top ridges, which was essentially why I started this post, but will just count this toward experience. I hope setting the z height a little lower next time will remedy this in the future.

I have a few (small angle) tapered ball nose (1/16 and 1/32), but since the pics are pretty small, I stayed with V bits for better detail.
Any advice on V Bits with a small angle?

K

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by BDM »

Kristen

Not sure what look you're after, but since previews are free I would try for more of a bas relief look on pine. Say try a .08" depth with a 15% line spacing and a 45 degree line angle to start with. First I would create a new picture removing the text before I did it and then do the text with VCarve as others have mentioned.
If you want to keep doing what you're doing, save yourself some frustration and ditch the pine. Get some maple or something similar. I've never been able to get a decent PVC in pine. I'm not saying it can't be done, but why make it harder than necessary.

BDM

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by kristenanne77 »

Thanks. Any particular size V bit?

K

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Re: Question about sanding top immediately after carving?

Post by BDM »

I usually use ball nose bits so I don't know which v-bit to tell you. But again, that's the great part about previews, you can change all the parameters and see the results without wasting any wood. If it was me, I would start with 1/8" ball nose and see if the detail was "good enough" for the size of your wood before going any finer. You could do the same with v-bits and see how they look.

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