Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

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PKC
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 am
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko XXL

Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by PKC »

So Im probably a lot newer to a lot of this than most here but I have questions on the Laser Module concerning its use with a new 7w Jtech laser setup for the Shapeoko XXL and Im hoping one or more of you can help.

Ive been getting fairly used to Vcarve Pro and know it well enough to get done just about anything Ive wanted do far until Ive tried my Jtech laser with the Vectric laser module. Ive imported the various Jtech post processors etc.

When run through the laser module it will go through the motions but wont activate the laser in any way. No on/off and obviously nothing in grey scale. 1. why is there output of the motion but no interface with the laser itself. 2. Even if I can get the laser running through the module, will the control of it be doable in terms of strength and hopefully grey scales etc.

I can get things working via the engraving toolpaths but thats just an on/off function and creates a whole host of problems with keeping the laser on when it shouldnt be etc and just marring the image and no control of the strength of the beam.

Let me know if you need more info and Ill do my best to explain in my newbie way. Thanks

CharlieP
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Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by CharlieP »

PKC wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:41 am
So Im probably a lot newer to a lot of this than most here but I have questions on the Laser Module concerning its use with a new 7w Jtech laser setup for the Shapeoko XXL and Im hoping one or more of you can help.

Ive been getting fairly used to Vcarve Pro and know it well enough to get done just about anything Ive wanted do far until Ive tried my Jtech laser with the Vectric laser module. Ive imported the various Jtech post processors etc.

When run through the laser module it will go through the motions but wont activate the laser in any way. No on/off and obviously nothing in grey scale. 1. why is there output of the motion but no interface with the laser itself. 2. Even if I can get the laser running through the module, will the control of it be doable in terms of strength and hopefully grey scales etc.

I can get things working via the engraving toolpaths but thats just an on/off function and creates a whole host of problems with keeping the laser on when it shouldnt be etc and just marring the image and no control of the strength of the beam.

Let me know if you need more info and Ill do my best to explain in my newbie way. Thanks
Hi Paul.

Getting the right Post Processor setup to match your controller is most important here.
I know that on the JTech website for the Shapeoko, they mention using UGCS (Universal GCode Sender) to drive the machine with a laser attachment.

Is this the setup for the controller you are using and have you verified that everything is also connected and working from directly sending Laser on/off commands from the controller?

If so, and the controller is all working as expected, please get in touch with the support@vectric.com team and we can help get into this in a bit more detail for you.

I hope this helps

wb9tpg
Vectric Wizard
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:49 pm
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Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by wb9tpg »

I have the 4.2W and have it working nicely on my Shapeoko. I'd be happy to share and help you. I do have some questions for you

Do you have a spindle or think you may do that in the future?
What are the current settings of $30 and $31 in your Shapeoko?
Which Gcode sender are you using?
Gary Mitchell
Kentucky, USA

PKC
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 am
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko XXL

Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by PKC »

CharlieP wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:39 am
PKC wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:41 am
So Im probably a lot newer to a lot of this than most here but I have questions on the Laser Module concerning its use with a new 7w Jtech laser setup for the Shapeoko XXL and Im hoping one or more of you can help.

Ive been getting fairly used to Vcarve Pro and know it well enough to get done just about anything Ive wanted do far until Ive tried my Jtech laser with the Vectric laser module. Ive imported the various Jtech post processors etc.

When run through the laser module it will go through the motions but wont activate the laser in any way. No on/off and obviously nothing in grey scale. 1. why is there output of the motion but no interface with the laser itself. 2. Even if I can get the laser running through the module, will the control of it be doable in terms of strength and hopefully grey scales etc.

I can get things working via the engraving toolpaths but thats just an on/off function and creates a whole host of problems with keeping the laser on when it shouldnt be etc and just marring the image and no control of the strength of the beam.

Let me know if you need more info and Ill do my best to explain in my newbie way. Thanks
Hi Paul.

Getting the right Post Processor setup to match your controller is most important here.
I know that on the JTech website for the Shapeoko, they mention using UGCS (Universal GCode Sender) to drive the machine with a laser attachment.

Is this the setup for the controller you are using and have you verified that everything is also connected and working from directly sending Laser on/off commands from the controller?

If so, and the controller is all working as expected, please get in touch with the support@vectric.com team and we can help get into this in a bit more detail for you.

I hope this helps
It will run with the various PPs Jtech provides if I use it under the engraver tool path. But not under the laser module tool paths (like i said itll run the paths in the laser module but not actually run the laser itself, IE on/off etc). But using the engraver toolpaths obviously it doesnt allow for control of the output levels and/or grey scaling etc and using it that way creates a few problems in terms of killing/turning on the laser in ways that dont create burns (hope that makes sense).

PKC
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 am
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko XXL

Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by PKC »

wb9tpg wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
I have the 4.2W and have it working nicely on my Shapeoko. I'd be happy to share and help you. I do have some questions for you

Do you have a spindle or think you may do that in the future?
What are the current settings of $30 and $31 in your Shapeoko?
Which Gcode sender are you using?
So I know this is annoying but Ill need you to treat me as if I were somone who knows nothing about anything. Bare with me since Ive ive only learned the little bit that Ive learned to do the little that Ive done. 1. Im not 100% sure what you mean by spindle *exactly*. 2. Im totally lost on what $30/$31 is in any way. 3. The PP that ive used with some level of success in the engraver tool path is JTech GRBL Laser (Inch).

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adze_cnc
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Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by adze_cnc »

Spindle is just a neutral term for "router". Since the Shapeoko XXL comes with a spindle I take the question to be: are you only using the laser module or will you doing a mixture of some laser-based projects and some spindle-based (router cutting) projects?

The GRBL control software within the Shapeoko has a myriad of settings in the form of a $ followed by a number. The two that are pertinent to laser cutting are $30 and $31.

Finding these setting is sort of easy. If you have the program "Universal Gcode Sender" installed on your computer you can view the values for $30 and $31. See the image: https://jtechphotonics.com/wp-content/u ... ommand.png

I took a look at the GRBL inch post-processor from the JTech site: https://jtechphotonics.com/?p=19034 and everything within it looks OK.

It would be interesting to compare the file that Vectric generates for an engraving job that works properly to the file for a cutting job that doesn't turn the laser on. Those files have the extension .gcode (e.g. my-first-engraving.gcode or samuels-busines-card.gcode, etc.)

Would you be able post a message here with two .gcode files (one engrave and one cut)?

wb9tpg
Vectric Wizard
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Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by wb9tpg »

PKC wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:03 am
So I know this is annoying but Ill need you to treat me as if I were somone who knows nothing about anything. Bare with me since Ive ive only learned the little bit that Ive learned to do the little that Ive done. 1. Im not 100% sure what you mean by spindle *exactly*. 2. Im totally lost on what $30/$31 is in any way. 3. The PP that ive used with some level of success in the engraver tool path is JTech GRBL Laser (Inch).
I'll try to keep it simple but that's hard for me to do. Feel free to keep asking questions and we can dive deeper if you need it.

The Shapeoko controller has an output called PWM ("Power Width Modulated") that should be connected to the Laser controller. Hopefully you have that wired up.

That output provides a signal from 0 to 5 volts. If it's 5 volts the laser will be at 100% power, 2.5 volts and it's at 50% power and 0 volts and the laser is off.

The output value is set based on a number of factors.

1. The speed sent in the gcode. You set that in the toolpath that you send to the CNC. I'd bet you have a simple router on your machine so you don't use this much today. I have a 3 phase spindle on my CNC and it's connected to the same PWM signal mentioned above. If PWM is set to 5 Volts then my spindle spins at 24,000 RPM. If it's 0 volts; then the spindle stops.

2. Lets looks at settings the Shapeoko uses to determine the voltage to generate. $30 and $31 are the max speed in minimum speed configuration settings stored in the Shapeoko controller. Usually $31=0 and $30 is the interesting value. Usually you see $30=256 or 1000 or 24000. I have mine set to 24000 so when my gcode contains a 'S24000' the spindle will rotate a 24,000 RPM. If you don't have a spindle and set your router manually you never needed to worry about that. But the laser needs the information and you need to know what it's set to to create your toolpaths to drive the laser. Assuming you're still using Carbide Motion you can enter the '$$' command in the MDI section and all the machine settings will appear in the log file. It's good to learn what they mean. Some people set $30=1000 so if your gcode value looks like a Percentage of Power, So if the Gcode contains 'S1000' output will be 5 volts and the laser will run at 100.0% of power. See S1000 gives 100.0% and makes it easier for some people. I'd recommend staying with $30=24000 if you ever think you'd consider getting a spindle. Some computer nerd people use $30=255 because of binary stuff not worth discussing here. LOL. You can set a setting in the MDI command screen by sending $30=1234 and it'll set $30 to 1234 so pick your value wisely.

3. The last big thing is the Feed Rate needs to change to laser power level. Think of it this way. The laser burns the wood and the slower I move it (feed rate) the more it burns it. The faster it moves and the less it burns it. When using a router or spindle you don''t need to worry about it but for a laser you need to understand this. When your Gcode tells your Shapeoko to move from point X to point Y at 400 mm/minute and use 80% laser power it just happens right? Not really. The machine starts at 0 speed and accelerates to 400mm/minute then slows back down to stop. The laser power must be reduced during the slower periods during acceleration/deceleration or it'll burn the wood too much. The Shapeoko has a setting to control this and it's called $32 (neat name huh) but it really is Laser Mode. If $32=0 the machine runs like router or spindle is attached and it'll output a constant value. If $32=1 is turns on the 'magic' Laser Mode. The Shapeoko will automatically reduce the output during acceleration/deceleration to keep the burins effect even.

Setting $32 is done manually but I do it in my post processor so I never forget it. If you are setting you're router speed manually than you have it easier. You can just turn on $32=1 since your router is not using the output signal. Just make sure your laser is not connected while running your router. Beware your Shapeoko will try to keep setting it back to 0 over and over again.

Read though this stuff so far and start asking questions
Gary Mitchell
Kentucky, USA

PKC
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:42 am
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko XXL

Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by PKC »

wb9tpg wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:40 am
PKC wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:03 am
So I know this is annoying but Ill need you to treat me as if I were somone who knows nothing about anything. Bare with me since Ive ive only learned the little bit that Ive learned to do the little that Ive done. 1. Im not 100% sure what you mean by spindle *exactly*. 2. Im totally lost on what $30/$31 is in any way. 3. The PP that ive used with some level of success in the engraver tool path is JTech GRBL Laser (Inch).
I'll try to keep it simple but that's hard for me to do. Feel free to keep asking questions and we can dive deeper if you need it.

The Shapeoko controller has an output called PWM ("Power Width Modulated") that should be connected to the Laser controller. Hopefully you have that wired up.

That output provides a signal from 0 to 5 volts. If it's 5 volts the laser will be at 100% power, 2.5 volts and it's at 50% power and 0 volts and the laser is off.

The output value is set based on a number of factors.

1. The speed sent in the gcode. You set that in the toolpath that you send to the CNC. I'd bet you have a simple router on your machine so you don't use this much today. I have a 3 phase spindle on my CNC and it's connected to the same PWM signal mentioned above. If PWM is set to 5 Volts then my spindle spins at 24,000 RPM. If it's 0 volts; then the spindle stops.

2. Lets looks at settings the Shapeoko uses to determine the voltage to generate. $30 and $31 are the max speed in minimum speed configuration settings stored in the Shapeoko controller. Usually $31=0 and $30 is the interesting value. Usually you see $30=256 or 1000 or 24000. I have mine set to 24000 so when my gcode contains a 'S24000' the spindle will rotate a 24,000 RPM. If you don't have a spindle and set your router manually you never needed to worry about that. But the laser needs the information and you need to know what it's set to to create your toolpaths to drive the laser. Assuming you're still using Carbide Motion you can enter the '$$' command in the MDI section and all the machine settings will appear in the log file. It's good to learn what they mean. Some people set $30=1000 so if your gcode value looks like a Percentage of Power, So if the Gcode contains 'S1000' output will be 5 volts and the laser will run at 100.0% of power. See S1000 gives 100.0% and makes it easier for some people. I'd recommend staying with $30=24000 if you ever think you'd consider getting a spindle. Some computer nerd people use $30=255 because of binary stuff not worth discussing here. LOL. You can set a setting in the MDI command screen by sending $30=1234 and it'll set $30 to 1234 so pick your value wisely.

3. The last big thing is the Feed Rate needs to change to laser power level. Think of it this way. The laser burns the wood and the slower I move it (feed rate) the more it burns it. The faster it moves and the less it burns it. When using a router or spindle you don''t need to worry about it but for a laser you need to understand this. When your Gcode tells your Shapeoko to move from point X to point Y at 400 mm/minute and use 80% laser power it just happens right? Not really. The machine starts at 0 speed and accelerates to 400mm/minute then slows back down to stop. The laser power must be reduced during the slower periods during acceleration/deceleration or it'll burn the wood too much. The Shapeoko has a setting to control this and it's called $32 (neat name huh) but it really is Laser Mode. If $32=0 the machine runs like router or spindle is attached and it'll output a constant value. If $32=1 is turns on the 'magic' Laser Mode. The Shapeoko will automatically reduce the output during acceleration/deceleration to keep the burins effect even.

Setting $32 is done manually but I do it in my post processor so I never forget it. If you are setting you're router speed manually than you have it easier. You can just turn on $32=1 since your router is not using the output signal. Just make sure your laser is not connected while running your router. Beware your Shapeoko will try to keep setting it back to 0 over and over again.

Read though this stuff so far and start asking questions
I think I get what you mean in theory. This will have been the first time Ive ever gotten into the MDI or even knew what it is in any way. What specifically am I typing into it?

wb9tpg
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:49 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko 3 XL

Re: Jtech 7w w/laser module questions

Post by wb9tpg »

I'll give advice based on my experience. I'm recommending you ditch Carbide Motion now and switch to either CNCjs or UGS. Carbide Motion wasn't written with lasers in mind and you'll end up fighting it a long time before you admit defeat and switch to something else. It'll save you from learning how to do MDI in Carbide Motion so don't waste time.

I've used both UGS and CNCjs. I think CNCjs is a better product due to Macro capability but UGS is easier to setup so start with that.

Being you now have a laser; you'll be running both laser toolpaths and also standard router toolpaths. On your Shapeoko the Laser Mode must be turned on and off for those to work properly. If you use UGS you'll need to type the command $32=1 to turn Laser Mode On and $32=0 to turn it off. I forgot a lot so I discovered that I could put that command in a post processor and not worry about it anymore but that only works with CNCjs due to a bug in the Shapeoko. So I'm using that method now and love it.

So pick a Gcode sender and download and install it. Spending more time on Carbide Motion is wasted time in my opinion

Next, have you wired your Laser Controller to the Shapeoko controller (PWM signal) yet? You need to so that before firing up your laser.
Gary Mitchell
Kentucky, USA

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