I am looking for something to do

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FixitMike
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by FixitMike »

jimandi5000 wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:15 am
Does not work on the VCarve Pro versions above 9.5.
There was a similar problem with other gadgets. One of the threads posted an explanation. I think this is the one: viewtopic.php?p=239252#p239252
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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

Hello All,

I need some help. As you may or may not know, I cannot get in the shop at this time. So, I have no way of testing the Bata Version of the Zank gadget.

1. I need someone to look a long hard look at the gadget (give me some feedback - good, bad, and the ugly).
2. Only if you think the toolpaths are correct, Mill a small simple test part and validate (check the fit, do a cut across it and measure the glue gap, contact depth, etc...).

Any one have the time out there?
Attachments
EasyZankMakerVer1.0.zip
Rename to EasyZankMakerVer1.0.vgadget
(35.18 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
Screenshot 2021-08-19 120818.jpg
Screenshot 2021-08-19 120856.jpg
Screenshot 2021-08-19 120456.jpg
Thanks,
Jim

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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

Hello All,

I have finished the online help for the EasyZankMaker gadget.

https://www.jimandi.com/EasyGadgets/Eas ... rHelp.html

Happy milling!
Thanks,
Jim

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adze_cnc
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by adze_cnc »

Hello Jim,

Installed gadget under VCarve v9.519. Selected vectors. Ran gadget. Obtained attached error.

Steven
VCarve v9.519
VCarve v9.519

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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

Looks like I have some work
Thanks,
Jim

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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

adze_cnc wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:45 am
Hello Jim,

Installed gadget under VCarve v9.519. Selected vectors. Ran gadget. Obtained attached error.

Steven

EasyZank-VCarve_9_5.png
Hello Steven,
I was thinking it would be a pretty simple thing to do but after several hours of digging into the legacy SDK and trying to split the code to intelligently manage a the correct version load (pre-10/post-10 code versions) and then maintaining it is something I may not want to invest in.

Is it possible you could upgrade to the current version of Vectric?
Thanks,
Jim

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adze_cnc
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by adze_cnc »

If the API doesn't support v9.x easily then it'll have to be for v10.x and above. Perhaps the ZIP file name could be something like:

EasyZankMakerVer<x.y> for vectric v10 plus.zip

where <x.y> is replaced by 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, etc. (although I would use 2_0, etc.)

In truth not being able to use the gadget is no great loss. My machine is quite capable of cutting these v-inlays without the features that this gadget was developed for. That and I make so few of these sorts of v-inlays.

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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

adze_cnc wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:29 pm
If the API doesn't support v9.x easily then it'll have to be for v10.x and above. Perhaps the ZIP file name could be something like:

EasyZankMakerVer<x.y> for vectric v10 plus.zip

where <x.y> is replaced by 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, etc. (although I would use 2_0, etc.)

In truth not being able to use the gadget is no great loss. My machine is quite capable of cutting these v-inlays without the features that this gadget was developed for. That and I make so few of these sorts of v-inlays.
I will work on a better naming scheme...
Thanks,
Jim

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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

FixitMike wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:49 pm
This is not as popular subject as the Zank inlay, but the Gear Gadget on the Vectric site has some problems. The primary one is that it does not take into account the radius of the cutter. The gadget result has sharp inside corners, which if not cut out can cause interference with the mating teeth. Also, there is no provision for modifying the tooth form or providing backlash. Paul Rowntree wrote a program to incorporate my method of drawing a gear that incorporates some of my fixes, but unfortunately, the virus detectors don't like it, and it wasn't completely finished. It appears on the second page of the thread listed below.

If you want to learn more about gear design than you ever wanted to, take a look at http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?t=21084 ...
Mike
Hi Mike,

I am looking at the gear maker and the tooth shape is correct. Can you show me what the issue you are seeing?
Thanks,
Jim

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FixitMike
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by FixitMike »

The attached picture shows some of the limitations of the Gear Gadget. You may be able to get a better understanding of what I would like to see by running Paul Rowntree's program that is in the thread I referenced. Some of these features are a quite technical, but one really needs to have a handle on them to design a useful gear.
Paul didn't finish the program, and I don't have enough (if any) knowledge of the gadget program language to get one to where I think it should be.
Gear Gadget suggestions.png
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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

FixitMike wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:58 am
The attached picture shows some of the limitations of the Gear Gadget. You may be able to get a better understanding of what I would like to see by running Paul Rowntree's program that is in the thread I referenced. Some of these features are a quite technical, but one really needs to have a handle on them to design a useful gear.
Paul didn't finish the program, and I don't have enough (if any) knowledge of the gadget program language to get one to where I think it should be.Gear Gadget suggestions.png

Gears are not designed to be ran with the tooth running against the bottom of the gullet and should always maintain a clearance value to avoid the tooth pinching or binding. Having both gears set to the tangential of pitch diameter is the proper depth and will avoid gear backlash. As you can see in the image I have drawn, the two small circles (1/8 dia) shows the radius of the mill bit and I do not see any tooth clearance issue.

With all that stated, I think the Gear Gadget from the Vectric team is a well designed and coded gadget. It also produces excellent crosscut style gears. I am willing to venture into building a new gadget that is designed to support gears being produced with an end mill.

I welcome your thoughts.
Attachments
Screenshot 2021-08-23 224454.jpg
Thanks,
Jim

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FixitMike
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by FixitMike »

jimandi5000 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:08 am
Gears are not designed to be ran with the tooth running against the bottom of the gullet and should always maintain a clearance value to avoid the tooth pinching or binding. Having both gears set to the tangential of pitch diameter is the proper depth and will avoid gear backlash. As you can see in the image I have drawn, the two small circles (1/8 dia) shows the radius of the mill bit and I do not see any tooth clearance issue.
My thoughts: 1. Backlash is necessary to avoid binding. The gears in the picture you have drawn will bind.
2. The image shows that a 1/8" bit will only cut fairly large teeth. On a 4" diameter gear there will be only 20 teeth of that size. That is about the lower limit for the number of teeth on a gear using the 14 degree pressure angle formed by the gadget. Any fewer, and the root cut will undercut the teeth. If a full radius root were used, the smallest 20 tooth gear could be about 1 3/4" diameter and a 1/8" bit would still fit between the teeth.

The lower limit for the number of teeth on a 20 degree pressure angle tooth is about 14. One can go to fewer teeth by playing with the addendum and dedendum values, but that can get tricky.

A gadget with the ability to use varying addendums and dedendums and pressure angles will enable the drawing of many more different gears. More technical expertise is needed to take advantage of the differences, but I see the need in a truly versatile gadget.

Running Paul Rowntree's program will give you a good idea of what I would like to see. Note that there is an erroneous statement that gears have to be run with their pitch diameters exactly tangent. One of the benefits of involute gearing is that if the center distance is off, the gears still run with constant velocity. Although this is not a problem for the speeds at which wood gears run, it comes into play with the design of high speed metal gearing. (An aside: Strictly speaking, a gear's pitch diameter is not determined until it is paired with another gear. But this is a very technical interpretation of what a pitch diameter is.)
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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

Hi Mike,

Okay, Let's start by doing some mockup drawings of some gears that would represent the minimum and maximum you think is appropriate for wooden gears. I can take your mockups and build the user interface, the code to parametrically generate gears based on limits and specifications. The gadget will scale up and down based on number of tooth count and sprocket diameter.

I had a quick thought about the user interface, do we want to have it set up gear pairing? First gear diameter and to count and the matting gear specs and could draw both gears at the same time. This would give the best chance for gear too gear matchup.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks,
Jim

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FixitMike
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by FixitMike »

I don't think pairing is necessary. The only time it might be required is for gears with only a few teeth, and then design can be quite complicated.
The program I keep referring to is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gp86q5v5h3qoi ... d.exe?dl=0 I would like to see something like it as a gadget to get more use by CNC players.
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jimandi5000
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Re: I am looking for something to do

Post by jimandi5000 »

FixitMike wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:05 pm
I don't think pairing is necessary. The only time it might be required is for gears with only a few teeth, and then design can be quite complicated.
The program I keep referring to is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gp86q5v5h3qoi ... d.exe?dl=0 I would like to see something like it as a gadget to get more use by CNC players.
Mike.... you are a coder.... Now I know your story... :)
I will take a look.
Thanks,
Jim

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