Virtual Zero Issue

DaGoose
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Virtual Zero Issue

Post by DaGoose »

I am using a Next Wave Shark 501 CNC. Never had an issue with it UNTIL now. I just cut a file and had Virtual Zero set up, project ran fine turned out perfect. Removed the project, shut down the shark finished the work piece. Decided to do a 2nd cut of the same file,. Downloaded the latest and greatest version 11.504 of VCarve. loaded up the work piece, clicked on the file on the USB, Was ready to set the Virtual Zero and it popped up saying "File not referenced to Center Press ok to Run without Virtual Zero". This is the same file I had just cut 2 hours before, and used the virtual zero. I loaded file up on VCarve Pro (version 11.504) and checked, it shows to be centered on the Job setup XY Datum Position. Still the Shark says no. I made a sample TEST file 10"x10"x.750 with XY Datum set to center. Loaded it up on the Shark and it shows the same error, Not referenced to Center. No file I load will allow Virtual Zero, all show the same error, not referenced to center. I am inclined to believe it is Software related. as the File worked perfect PRIOR to updating the 11.504 upgrade.
Need a little help from someone more knowledgeable than I.
Measure with a micrometer, Mark it with Chalk, Cut it with an ax, Beat it together.

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sharkcutup
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by sharkcutup »

Use Virtual Zero most of the time and never have seen that issue. Have you contacted Next Wave the creators of Virtual Zero about that error message?

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sharkcutup
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by sharkcutup »

Question: When you performed the SAMPLE Check (10"x10"x.750") did you set the XY datum of your machine before attempting to use the Virtual Zero Setup???


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martin54
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by martin54 »

When you say you downloaded 11.504 was that a patch from 11.503 or where you using 11.0 for the file that worked perfectly?

If it's a new version as in from 11.0 to 11.5 are you using the same post processors that you were using in 11.0?

I don't use the shark control software & have no idea how it works or what virtual zero is lol but if you haven;t changed the CNC control software the problem is likely to be settings that are different or the post processor :lol: :lol:

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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by DaGoose »

I did contact Next Wave and sent them a file I created in 11.504. Talked to Matt, Very helpful. I updated to 11.504 from 503. I did find out while plugging along on this that If I open and create a file with an OLD version 11.016 I have no problems, If I save it with 11.504 Then the VZ doesn't want to work. So for the interim and to get Christmas last minute gifts done I am using the old version, Works like a charm. In 11.504 Projects I had to open change a name or date then resave it. There is where the problem comes in. If I open the project in 11.016, modify it, save it it works perfect. Do the same thing with 11.504 and VZ is dead in the water. . Sounds like a Software bug to me. But then what do I know.
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martin54
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by martin54 »

Something in the software yes but unlikely to be a bug, there haven't been a lot of other posts on the forum about this & there are plenty of people using the shark control software. More than likely to be a setting or something along those lines. Sharkcutup has said that he uses that Virtual Zero you mentioned most of the time & he is running the latest version of the software.
When you upgraded to 11.5 did you migrate your post processors from V11 ? The first think I would look at is the post-processors, then I would start looking at what settings you have in 11 that might be different in 11.5. might be that you did something with your set-up when you had V11 & now you have to do the same thing in 11.5 :lol: :lol:

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adze_cnc
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by adze_cnc »

DaGoose wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:12 pm
Sounds like a Software bug to me. But then what do I know.
Not in respect to “virtual zero” I suspect. The Vectric programs know little if anything about the capabilities of anyone’s machines. The programs don’t know what Virtual Zero is or even what machines might support it.

What would be good to see is two files. These files could be of that 10x10 test you mentioned earlier. Certainly they should be from a project that works in v11.016 but not in v11.504. The files would be using the same toolpath and parameters so that as close as possible the only differences are the two version of VCarve:
  • g-code (tap?) file saved from the v11.016 program
  • g-code (tap?) file saved from the v11.504 program
You might need to rename the files with a .txt extension or compress the files to a .zip file to upload here.

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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by DaGoose »

adze_cnc
I am doing that now, semi sort of, between being one of Santa Elf's, sanding (YUCK) painting (Double YUCK), staining and bolting together bicycles & tricycles. 21 grandkids and Our Christmas is Friday!
So far cant find any difference. Post Processor is the same on both versions. I did a factory reset on the HD-510 Per Matt suggestion and problem is still there. Has me winding my backside and scratching my watch. But I WILL figure it out, way to Many eyeballs looking at it to let it slip by. I will let you folks know what I find out, But I have got to get back to being Santa Clause Grandkids are way more important than this issue as off right now anyway. I have a work around that is what I was after. I want to wish each and everyone of you folks a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
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martin54
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by martin54 »

Here is something to try, files created in V11.5 will open in V11 so you can design & toolpath a file in V11.5 :lol:
Open that file in V11 & save it for the machine to cut :lol:

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martin54
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by martin54 »

If it cuts ok when output from V11 then the next thing I would do is look at the post processors, you say they are the same but are you sure one of them has not been altered? They could still have the same name but be different if one has been altered.
To make sure open V11.5 & delete any post processors associated with V11.5. At the top of the screen under the help tab scroll down to migrate from older version. Select V11 as the previous version & make sure there is a check mark in the post-processor option :lol: :lol:

As adze_cnc has said the virtual zero function is something associated with the shark control software & Vectric programs can be used with a wide range of controllers. The only place I can think of between the 2 that might be causing an issue is the post-processor used which is why I have mentioned it a few times :lol: :lol:
That is the reason he has asked for the g-code files output from V11 & V11.5 :lol: :lol:

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sharkcutup
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by sharkcutup »

From NextWave Website for Pendant Model CNC's --- Now, Next Wave CNC Shark users have the ability to map the entire surface of their material by taking an unlimited number of reference points. The program uses those points to auto-adjust your current program's height to conform to the actual surface.

By using the standard touch plate (purchased separately), Virtual Zero Unlimited avoids any problems caused by bowed or warped work pieces. It even allows the user to maintain a constant cutting depth on oddly or intricately shaped projects that would otherwise require the creation of a CAD 3D model.
I have an earlier Version of the Virtual Zero Where the reference points taken are limited to five in which are the four corners (with a distance preset from edges) and the center of a project. As I have said in an earlier post I have never come across the issue that the Op is seeing here in this thread.

The only things I can think of is that Virtual Zero needs to know where the project is located in order to create the the five points (earlier version) of the project. If by chance the XY datum location is not performed at the CNC machine the Virtual Zero may kick out that error message. I have never had this issue because after clamping material board to table the XY datum is always faithfully performed. I may just setup something at my machine and try using the Virtual Zero without setting the XY datum to see if there is any error message that comes up. The CNC machine may just use the last Virtual Zero project information in memory for location. I am not really sure exactly what will occur until I run a test.

The only other thing I can think of is there may be a big difference is the way things are performed between the different versions of the software (earlier version versus pendant version).

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martin54
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by martin54 »

If by chance the XY datum location is not performed at the CNC machine the Virtual Zero may kick out that error message. I have never had this issue because after clamping material board to table the XY datum is always faithfully performed

Yes but that wouldn't have anything to do with Vectric software but might be something to do with the post processor that is being used, you have to assume that the OP is carrying out exactly the same routine for the V11 files that worked perfectly & the V11.5 files that don't :lol: :lol:

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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by scotttarnor »

I had not upgraded to V11.504 so I saved a file prior to updating, I updated and saved the file again. I loaded both files on my Shark and Virtual Zero behaved as expected and as it always has. OP issue could not be recreated.
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by scotttarnor »

DaGoose, can you provide the first few lines of text from your G code on a working Virtual zero file and one that is not allowing Virtual Zero to work? it should look similar to the below text.
I am assuming you are using your pendant, is this correct?
For those not familiar with Virtual Zero it only functions if material set up is set to center when creating the file in the Vectric software.
I think the Nextwave software must use the 9th line to determine this.

( VECTRIC POST REVISION)
( 47050B966FEC1778F1CBCD9BC4FA35FC)
( V-Carve 1 v )
( File created: Wednesday December 21 2022 - 08:26 AM)
( for Next Wave Automation from Vectric )
( Material Size)
( X= 16.000, Y= 5.000, Z= 0.750)
( Z Origin for Material = Material Surface)
( XY Origin for Material = Center)
( XY Origin Position = X:0.000, Y:0.000)
( Home Position)
( X = X0.0000 Y = Y0.0000 Z = Z0.5000)
( Safe Z = 0.200)
()
(Toolpaths used in this file:)
(V-Carve 1)
(Tool used in this file: )
(1 = V-Bit {90.0° - 1/2"})
(V-Bit {90.0° - 1/2"})
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sharkcutup
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Re: Virtual Zero Issue

Post by sharkcutup »

For those not familiar with Virtual Zero it only functions if material set up is set to center when creating the file in the Vectric software.
Yup, definitely a difference in Virtual Zero Versions -- the above is not true for earlier Versions of Virtual Zero. All that was needed in earlier Version was the XY datum location of the project at the CNC machine along with tap file from Vectric software with the data (xy datum location both xy and top or bottom of material surface, project size, etc...) of the project.

Thank you Scott

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