Layered elliptical box

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CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

Thanks very much Joz. Your comment made up for some rough spots over the weekend.

I had to make two of the box tops due to the Z axis taking a nose dive into the wood when 3/4 finished on the first attempt. Had a problem with the fajita trays on the last passes when the computer stopped responding during a tool change, but was able to recover from that with no additional problems. In both cases it was something I did. :(

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Heime
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by Heime »

" The padauk is more red than the photo shows. My camera shifts the colors under the fluorescent shop lighting.

CarveOne"

You can solve the colour problem in an instant simply by replacing with LED tubes. Its a simple changeover - just remove the starters and pop in the tubes. Brilliant clear light as long as you use cool white. (6,000 Kelvin) Wattage is reduced to 18 and light comes on instantly. It isnt as easy if you have electronic starters but still do-able. As these things are all plastic you can even put them under the gantry. We get them in Oz for $12.00 each in batches of 10 with free postage. These are SMD so long life is expected. The ellipical box project is just brilliant. Thanks for sharing!

CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

I prefer cool white. The shop is well lit as it is but I don't especially like the electronic ballasts. They are creating electrical RF noise strong enough to drown out FM radio reception and even interfere with the CNC equipment. I'll look around at replacement LED lights and/or fixtures. Thanks for the info.

Also, thanks for the "Thanks". I hope others get some use and enjoyment from the files I post here and on my website's downloads folder. www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com

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dhellew2
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by dhellew2 »

CarveOne,

Are your light fixtures T8's; they don't usually make noise. My ballasts are Triad and Sylvania, bulbs are Phillips F323T8/TL850 which are as close to daylight as you can get in a tube. They do cost about 50 cents more each but are great in paint rooms where the colors are almost as true as outside. We use them in the house and shop, over 130 fixtures total. The paint room has a 7' ceiling and still no noise.

I was wondering what you do with your ring inside cutouts? I often cut smaller rings for smaller boxes.
You do such great work I was wondering if you have considered making segmented patterns in the rings like bowl turners do? Check out http://woodturnerpro.com/ (photos, trial software download, etc)


Woodturner pro software is relatively inexpensive and very easy to use. I even used it to design two octagon picnic table tops using rings of 2/6's.

The tray on the right uses the same technique as making bowls.
Serving trays 2.jpg
Dale
You will get old if you live long enough!

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CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

WOW! Those are nice. I'll check out that site this evening.

I have been saving the center cutouts for possible smaller boxes or small desktop signs.

The shop light tubes are the small diameter T41 Sylvania Octron/ECO 4100K type with a single brass pin on each end. I don't remember who makes the fixtures. I have three pairs with each pair on a separate switch. With the lights off I get good reception. As I turn on any one switch the reception gets noisy. Turning on each additional switch makes the reception worse. Turning on only the switch for the pair nearest the FM radio is worse than either of the other two switches individually. So, the nearest pair is worst, the farthest away pair is the least interference. It's distance related. Putting ferrite chokes on the wires in the fixtures might help.

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dhellew2
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by dhellew2 »

CarveOne,

What is the rest of the number on the bulbs? It should indicate if they are a T12 (1-1/2"), T8 (1"), or T5 (5/8"). Example: F323T8/TL850.

Number breakdown: F= fluorescent, 32 = 32 watts, T8 = tube 8/8", TL850 = mfg color/temperature/model number; if it has HO it means high output, usually used for high bay ceilings over 13' and cold places.

Most newer electronic ballasts do not interfere with FM radios. In any case there are ways to eliminate or improve rfi interference with radios. Lights that are not working efficiently tend to emit increased amounts of RFI.

Here are some questions and possible solutions.

Most likely the Interference is generated from loose Pin Terminations. I coat the pins with a very light coat of oxgard which improves contact and prevents the pins from welding to the contacts and corrosion.

CAUTION: Oxgard is conductive so use as little as possible. For small pins I poke a hole in the oxgard tube seal the same size as the pin then just stick the pin through the hole which will give it a very thin, almost not visible, coating; which also works for the ballast wire connection to the tube pin connector/holder.

Verify the Lamps' Pins are secure in the Lamp Holders.

With the Radio and Lamps on, rotate the Lamps in their Holders. Check for varying Interference; check for loose lead wires to the Lamp Holders, again I coat the wire with a thin layer of oxgard.

Ballast RFI would affect the AM Spectrum more than FM, whereas Fixture EMI would affect mostly all Radio Frequency stuff - from MF (540 kHz thru 1100 kHz), through VHF and UHF.

Try "Seating" the Lamps first - rotate them in their Lamp Holders. Then verify tight connections. Also make sure that both sides of the Lamp Holders are connected to the Ballast Lead Wire.

Examine your radio. If it has a boom box style telescoping antenna it may have become loose from being moved around. Try tightening it with your fingertips to eliminate the RFI. If your antenna is the lamp cord style, make sure it is secured tightly to the back of the radio. Move the antenna cord around and see if the interference stops. Try shortening the length of wire between your radio and speakers. Long speaker wire can pick up RFI and make it louder. Consider moving your radio to a different location. Moving your antenna to a new area may improve your reception enough to overcome the interference from fluorescent lights. You may also find that plugging it into a different wall outlet eliminates RFI.
You will get old if you live long enough!

Dale

CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

They are F096/741/ECO 1" diameter tube with 0.31" diameter pin, 53 watt. They are the T8 type. T41 made no sense when I wrote it down but that is what the printing looked like initally. Not sure why it's labeled F096 and it's also printed "53 watts"

Most of the problem is that the FM stations I want to listen to are weak in this area anyway. When the router and dust collector are running the RFI doesn't matter since I have on hearing protection anyway. It is an AM/FM/CD boom box. The best cure is to keep the lights I have and put a better receiver and speakers out there and run coax to an outside FM/TV antenna. I have already put up a triangular tower for that purpose.

Back to making CNC stuff. Thanks for the info and help. I haven't used Oxgard before.

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dhellew2
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by dhellew2 »

The 96 means 96" (8') lamps.

I am working on a couple of 96 LED lighted lithophanes (9 volt battery powered) and another carved walking stick similar to a western cattle drive. dh
You will get old if you live long enough!

Dale

CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of those projects.

I will look into the LED lighting though.


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Heime
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by Heime »

Carve One

Some more info on LED lighting. The pic of budget boxes shows colour rendition is spot on and you get no shadows. The finish is one coat of Livos oil sealer and timbers are poplar, swietinea mahogany, amoora and cinnamon. These guys only draw 16 watts (T8) and will probably outlast me! On interference, you can also get heaps of RF from first generation LEDs, particularly if you are into HF radio. Our solution is only use Tune-in radio app in the shop as it solves all the problems plus you can rewind, pause and record. Uses up 6 gig a month. Sorry the pic is upside down - it has come from Australia you know!

Bob
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CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

The whole world is topsy-turvy at the moment. It's easy enough to rotate the images.

My shop lights are 96 inches long. I found one supplier for those and the LED fixture is $303.50 usd. I would need six of them. It makes more sense to keep the fixtures that I have installed in the work shop until I use up the box of spare fluorescent tubes, and spend much less money to install a better FM receiver, speakers, and antenna system instead. The spare tubes will last many years at the rate I have been replacing them. (two in 6 years). Or set up a computer with internet access in the shop that is mostly dedicated to internet radio stations.

Your boxes look pretty nice. I have some nice pieces of Sidney blue gum eucalyptus and some curly wandoo eucalyptus from Australia that I have been hoarding for a special project that I haven't decided on yet. Found it at a woodworking store many years ago. None of it is big enough to make boxes, so it will be used for knobs and decorative inlays I suppose.

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Heime
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by Heime »

The upside down pics are a worry! Its of course an iPad quirk. I posted a couple of pics on the Shopbot Forum at the same time and they are OK. You guys seem to be a bit behind with tubes and your electricity cost is not as screwy as ours because of all the "green" stuff. Our changeover is ultra simple and low cost. Fixtures here are only $38.00 for 48".

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dhellew2
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by dhellew2 »

A lot of information follows, and I hope will be my last post about lighting; back to CNC stuff!

When the time comes I would recommend installing 4' T8 fixtures, 8' units are on their way out along with T12's and incandescent bulbs. T5's are too bright and adding diffusers to compensate cancels any benefit they may have for energy savings.

For those with 4' T12 fixtures all you need to do to switch to T8's is change the ballast . The pins are the same and the ballasts are around 1/3rd the cost of new fixtures and a lot less labor is required for installation and/or removal.

On December 18, 2007, the U.S. Congress passed legislation to ban the incandescent light bulb by 2014.

The only real downside is the colors, which for the most part suck. They are getting better and some daylight bulbs are quite pleasant.
Most CFL's come from China and one company, Feit has been in the business longer than anyone and their 18 watt daylight CFL is the best I've seen.

The phaseout officially begins with the 100-Watt incandescent light bulb on January 2012 and ends with the 40-Watt bulb in 2014. Any light bulbs outside of these requirements are exempt from the ban.

Part of the Bill mandates that all light bulbs must use 30% less energy by 2014. It also states that by 2020, all light bulbs must be 70% more efficient than bulbs used in 2007 and produce a minimum of 45 lumens per Watt. Fluorescent lights typically exceed the 70% requirement by at least 5%.

As long as the phase out doesn't promote unreasonable cost increase and/or planned life reduction of CFL's & tubes the consumer does benefit. CFL's emit the same lumen at 25% of the energy consumption as incandescent, and have an average life expectancy of 7,000 hours compared to average incandescent life of 750 hours.

T12 fluorescent bulbs and magnetic ballasts are also banned. No energy saving here but there is an increase of 7% more lumen output. Other benefits include 50% reduction in waste glass, Phosphorus coating, and mercury. The original plan was to replace 4-tube T12's fixtures with 3-tube T8 fixtures to save energy (1 tube less) but it didn't work because there was a net lumen loss (4%) and most work places needed more light not less.

Lumen & energy saving information was provided by the Lighting Lab, Seattle WA, including my shop. I have 9 rows of 9 each two bulb T8 fixtures end to end at a 13.5' height, rows spaced 14' apart; with two alternating rows switched together.

The lighting lab has movable walls and ceiling to emulate work spaces. I don't know if they still do, but the service was provided free of charge through local utilities.
You will get old if you live long enough!

Dale

CarveOne
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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

Thanks for the lighting info Dale. Maybe it will be helpful to someone building a new shop or remodeling a basement for a CNC working area. The cost of running these lights is minimal compared to running the dust collector and other equipment in the shop for many hours sometimes. The shop is well lit, and I don't have any other issues with them that is serious enough to justify the cost of wholesale swapping them out. I may eventually swap out one pair of these 8' fixtures at a time starting with the pair that is directly over my 5' x 12' CNC machine.


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Re: Layered elliptical box

Post by CarveOne »

I'm almost finished with this one. I used Deft clear satin spray lacquer for this one because it leaves the maple and padauk lighter than with the polyurethane, which makes it more amber than I want for this combination of woods. It has Java gel stain in the cuts. I did not stain the maple.

The floor plate is being sprayed with lacquer and is made of unstained 1/16" birch plywood.

I'm pretty happy with this one but there are a couple of changes I want to make to the files before making another one. The wall needs to be maybe 1/16" thicker and There are plunge marks that need to be ramped to see if it helps with minimizing the sanding effort. Will add dowel holes also.

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