Closed Vectors sharing lines

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Marko74
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Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Marko74 »

I am trying to do something that at first I thought would be very easy. And now it has become complex. The problem seems to be, to put is simplistically, that a closed vector cannot share a line with another closed vector. Here is a simple example. The drawing below is two squares that happen to overlap. Because of the overlap, it looks as if there are three rectangles. But if I modeled this as two squares, it seems that I cannot cut a pocket from one of those virtual rectangles because they are not closed in and of themselves. The picture below shows the two squares modeled overlapping. The second picture shows how I would like to cut it out on the CNC router leaving simple "dams" between the virtual rectangles. Of course the model I am actually working on is far more complex, but the same problem seems to exist. So, my question is...if a closed vector should overlap another closed vector, can the overlap or intersecting body be recognized as a closed vector in and of itself? The brown color is meant to represent a pocket that has been removed. :?:
Screen Shot 2019-12-16 at 9.59.50 PM.png
By the way, I am using the newest version of Aspire.
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Screen Shot 2019-12-16 at 9.58.32 PM.png

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FixitMike
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by FixitMike »

As far as I can tell, the answer to your question is "No". If part of a closed vector overlays a part of another closed vector, the only thing that the overlay will affect is how any toolpaths will cut. The vectors themselves do not affect other vectors. You can think of it this way: You can put each vector on a separate layer, and that will not change how the toolpaths work. Just because you can observe a "virtual" rectangle, it does not make it a closed vector.

The exceptions for one vector affecting another occur where one vector is used to determine the action, shape or location of another vector: Rails and profiles for the moulding toolplath. Curves defining distortion tool boundaries. Defining curves for text on a curves
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newmexico
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by newmexico »

(Great question)
Overlapping paths must be joined at the point of intersecting for vcarving
Overlapping paths must be joined at the point of intersecting for vcarving
Overlapping paths need to be JOINED at the point where they intersect each other for vcarving.

We spend a great deal of our design time making sure...

1. All paths are closed.
2. Paths do not touch each other.
3. Overlapping paths are joined together where they intersect.

IMHO, this is one of the best questions on this forum. Intersecting and overlapping paths are problematic to VCarving. The Frida Kahlo graphic was originally full of intersections and overlaps and took some time to prepare it for vcarving.
FridaKahlo
FridaKahlo

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Adrian
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Adrian »

[quote="Marko74" So, my question is...if a closed vector should overlap another closed vector, can the overlap or intersecting body be recognized as a closed vector in and of itself? The brown color is meant to represent a pocket that has been removed. .[/quote]
If you want the brown areas to be cut out and the white areas to be material then you can't automatically do that without creating additional vectors which I guess isn't an easy option in your real world project. What the human eye sees isn't the same thing that a program sees. There is no rectangle there for it to cut too.

You might want to experiment with the subtract and overlap tools as they can be used to create vectors in situations like that. Be sure to keep a copy of the original ones though as you will need those in conjunction with the new ones created by the tools. Layers are your friend for that sort of thing.

Marko74
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Marko74 »

Note.png

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Adrian
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Adrian »

I thought the shape would be a lot more complex than that. That one is pretty simple. It's just a matter of duplicating the vectors where needed so each part that you want to cut the inside out of is separated by a closed vector and then having an offset vector to create the piece left between each cut out. Think of it like a stencil.

Doing an auto trace of the dragon fly picture would give you nearly all the vectors you need automatically.

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FixitMike
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by FixitMike »

Yes, things are more complicated.

You can think of a vector as one line with one beginning and one end. If the beginning and end are both in the same place, the vector is closed. If you have more ends, you have more than one vector.

In the case of the picture shown, I would move the ends of the dragonfly wings slightly away from the border line. That will simplify things. Each enclosed area will require a separate vector around it if you intend to pocket it

Another way of looking at how to carve a pattern is to draw it out and color the areas you intend to pocket with a single crayon. It will become immediately obvious that you can't pocket adjacent areas and end up with them being separate. Of course, one could pocket them at different depths, which would correspond to using different colors to fill the design.
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Adrian »

I think the attached file is what you're describing. It was easy to create with the auto trace. It created all the vectors need automatically (I would clean them up a bit if I was doing it for real). If I misunderstood and it's something different to that then hopefully the technique will give you some ideas.
dragonfly.jpg
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newmexico
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by newmexico »

JoiningPaths3.jpg
We hope the above is helpful and makes sense.

Marko74
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Marko74 »

All good information. Thanks again. You have given me a lot to study. However, I haven't found any functionality in Aspire called "Auto Trace". This seems to be a function that will automatically create a "boundary" vector around an existing vector. And this seems like just the functionality I need. Where or how do I "auto trace" a vector? Is this, perhaps, a functionality of Vcarve instead of Aspire. While I have breached this subject, answer me this, is there any functionality in Vcarve that is not present in Aspire?

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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Adrian »

Marko74 wrote:All good information. Thanks again. You have given me a lot to study. However, I haven't found any functionality in Aspire called "Auto Trace". This seems to be a function that will automatically create a "boundary" vector around an existing vector. And this seems like just the functionality I need. Where or how do I "auto trace" a vector? Is this, perhaps, a functionality of Vcarve instead of Aspire. While I have breached this subject, answer me this, is there any functionality in Vcarve that is not present in Aspire?
Auto trace is the bitmap to vector tool. Some people call it the Chicken tool as it looks like a chicken but it's actually a Robin. It's the first icon on the last row in the Create Vectors section of the Drawing tab. I used that tool as you supplied a bitmap picture rather than vectors and it was the quickest way to do it from that point. If you're starting with pure vectors you can use the offset tool, boundary tool, snipping tool and the weld/subtract tools. Many different ways to skin the same cat.

As far as functionality on the 2D side of thing goes there is no difference between VCarve Pro and Aspire. The difference are all on the 3D side.

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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Marko74 »

I wanted to post a shout out to all those who were willing to share their time in my education. I have found that it is easier to do the bulk of the drawing in Adobe Illustrator. Then save it as a DFX or Bitmap before bringing it in for further manipulation in Aspire. Not only have I been able to model my project and cut it out successfully on my CNC router, but more importantly I now have a better understanding of the differences between lines and vectors. What I learned was essentially, in a 2-D world, when two lines intersect, they literally intersect! There is a point that both lines share. But vectors are not lines in spite of the fact that they often behave like lines and can be manipulated like lines in Aspire. Seems like a simple concept, but I guess i had to go through this in order to completely embrace it. Cheers. :wink:

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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by ger21 »

In Aspire, there is no difference between a "line" and a vector. Any line would be a vector, as Aspire does not have a "line" entity.
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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by newmexico »

Suggestion: Think of everything we draw as PATHS. (Why? Because we are drawing up paths for our cutter to follow.)

Is that PATH open or closed?
If it is an open path, then we have three choices: Follow LEFT or RIGHT or CENTER.
If it is a closed path, then our cutter has no choice but to cut inside or outside. (Complicated, huh?)

We, too, use Illustrator for everything around here. It also has Image Trace and Path tools. It won't clean my shop, though.

It is a vector world we live in with CNC. It can be difficult to wrap our brains around that world.
Thank God they chose Vector over Bitmap for our CNC machines. Whoo Boy!

Paths... paths... paths... closed or open... Vectors...

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Re: Closed Vectors sharing lines

Post by Adrian »

The three choices apply to open and closed "paths" though as far as profile toolpathing goes though. What you can't do is to mix open and closed paths into the same left/right toolpath.

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