Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

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Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

I am thinking of upgrading to Centroid CNC12.

I am sure there are other probing routines out there as Centroid is not the only software that can probe a surface.

If one had the point cloud data - OR - the G-code for a surface - Can Aspire OR something else create a model. Once the model is created then to be able to project to 3D surface.

How can point cloud data be converted to a model component?
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by adze_cnc »

Leo,

As I don't have Aspire I've never looked into the "Regular Grid Importer" gadget. I wonder if that combined somehow with Paul Rowntree's CSV gadget might be of use?

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by martin54 »

Not sure if this helps at all Leo, I have a feeling that John was looking at something along these lines with mach3 at one time, it was a few years ago so I could be wrong :oops: :oops:

viewtopic.php?t=31553

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

Martin,

Yes and NO.

That thread does talk about point cloud data, yes.

It does talk about the Point cloud data importer gadget - yes.

It brings about a total knowledge and conclusive solution - NO

Is it possble to create a model component - YES

Do I know how to do it - NOT YET - but eventually yes I will.
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Adrian »

The Regular Grid Importer gadget can 100% create a model from a point cloud file but as I said in the other thread it depends on the format of the point cloud file.

I used to use the Shopbot probe file gadget but I sold my probe a long time ago as it's just such a slow process. I shifted towards vacuum forming for the process I was doing at the time instead.

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Woody Jr »

Where does one find DEM files to use with this gadget? I see the USGS has converted to another format. Thanks

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

Adrian wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:06 pm
The Regular Grid Importer gadget can 100% create a model from a point cloud file but as I said in the other thread it depends on the format of the point cloud file.
Agreed.

I have not yet been sucessful.

It seems there are perhaps hundreds of formats.

The Regular Grid Importer supports 4
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by ZipperHead55 »

Leo wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:29 pm
I am thinking of upgrading to Centroid CNC12.

I am sure there are other probing routines out there as Centroid is not the only software that can probe a surface.

If one had the point cloud data - OR - the G-code for a surface - Can Aspire OR something else create a model. Once the model is created then to be able to project to 3D surface.

How can point cloud data be converted to a model component?
Do you mind me asking what it is that you are looking at scanning? My experience with scanners is that they are either too good, or too crappy. By this, I mean that if you did a scan of a brick wall, you'd end up with 3 million points (or more) and you could easily make the same model in about 5 minutes using some trickery, but using the point cloud data, you'd be cleaning up 99% of the extraneous data and it would take forever.. Or, at the other end of the spectrum, you would end up with a shapeless blob that doesn't remotely resemble what it is that you want to have modeled.

Most of the scanners seem to be geared at applications where you would "paint" the surface of the model with the photos that it takes (for 3D models/renders), and that hides the majority of the flaws . If you were to try to carve it au naturel (no paint, just a stain/oil, etc) all of those flaws would be fairly obvious.

They have their applications (I have seen museums using them, along with CNC routers and 3D printers to replicate pieces that are too delicate to be covered with silcone or plaster (the old school method).

I have kept an eye out on the various technologies (I used to make 3D models for military simulation (mostly buildings and the like for terrains and used photogrammetry a little bit (I was a independent contractor so I didn't have the cash for the expensive toys), and investigated LIDAR point clouds to make terrains) and most of them have come down in cost substantially, but many of the limitations still apply, regardless of price: too much data and too little data. One still has to massage the data to suit one's purposes, and sometimes the easiest way is to make it yourself. Easier said than done, but I have found that Aspire gets me very close to what I have in mind, as long as it's not too involved/detailed, but I have seen some artists create literal works of art with Aspire. Other software platforms are far too complicated to learn (I learned on 3DS Max and modo; and Z-Brush/other modelling software are good, but you really have to be an artist to use them IMO). If I can find vectors, or good reference photos, Aspire is a pretty decent platform. Otherwise, I farm out my 3D work to offshore artists. Or troll the various 3D model repositories for free (or cheap) models that are "good enough for government work".

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

Allan,

I am not thinking "scanning".
I am thinking "probing".
Taking a probe and finding the X-Y-Z coordinate in 3D space and creating a grid of points.
THEN - taking those points and creating a surface like STL or other 3D surface.
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by ZipperHead55 »

Leo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:03 pm
Allan,

I am not thinking "scanning".
I am thinking "probing".
Taking a probe and finding the X-Y-Z coordinate in 3D space and creating a grid of points.
THEN - taking those points and creating a surface like STL or other 3D surface.
Ok. I kind of went down the garden path, getting wrapped around the axles with what I had in mind, vs what you were asking.

I have seen some people's DIY probes, that usually use UGS-controlled machines. Currently I have one that has a DSP (RichAuto B18 controller) so I don't think it's feasible, so I haven't really looked into it. I do have a NWA Pirahna that I have kept for random projects (doing acrylic engraving, laser stuff, etc) and as I recall there is a "gadget" for auto-leveling (to a point) your workpiece. It collects 5 point (think the 4 corners of a square and the center) and then adjusts your G-code to make up for the height difference. People have "hacked" that to collect more points (not sure how it's controlled) to do some basic probing, but I imagine automated probing would require quite sophisticated software (and hardware) to find the edges of extreme angles and not crash into them.

My points re photo/laser scanning remain though: too much data or not enough. There would be a LOT of editing to get the data to a workable state in my estimation.

On a somewhat related note: I am planning on using my CNC, rotary attachment and some old-fashioned data collection (in a note book) to get the exact (or "good enough for government work") measurements of 105mm brass tank casings (I plan on engraving them with a diamond drag bit). My plan is to mark off areas on the tank casing (along the y-axis) that I will use the CNC and a bit (probably a rounded bit in the diamond drag bit, since it's spring loaded and that way it won't mar the brass when I "probe" it) and then move the bit down the length of the casing, reading off the height from the Z-axis and recording that into my notebook. Then using Aspire, I will make a model of the casing (first create the outline with vectors and then "turn it" in Aspire (making it into a 3D model) and it should be pretty good to engrave (small variations will be dealt with by the spring-action of the bit). Using the "Project onto model" and then the Quick Engraving toolpath to engrave it. That's my plan. There are probably easier methods, but I kind of wanted to see how well it works (my controller allows me to move in .1mm increments, which is far more accurate then using a caliper (I think)). That is kind of simplistic compared to probing a large complicated design, although I suppose it could be the same way (albeit painfully slowly).

Allan

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

Allan, What you are doing sounds intriguing.

The digitizing/probing I plan on trying is all done with Centroid. The digitizing software, the probe and even the Breakout Board is all manufactured by Centroid. In my way of thinking it should all work together seamlessly. I am not making a DIY probe.

To start, I want to take a rough sawn live edge board that has been drying in my shed for years and probe / digitize the surface to I can project a toolpath onto it. The board is a very non-flat, irregular surface. As ANY wood will do, it will conform to a natural shape. It moves - warps, twists, bows. I want to use it in it's natural state.

I can get a laser scan done at http://www.ibild.com/
A BLUG here - I highly recommend IBILD - they do a FANTASTIC job.
That scan will give me a HIGHLY detailed surface. Saw marks, grain, cracks - every minute tiny detail - BUT - it is very expensive. It would be about $100 for each scan - plus shipping wood there, and back again. I get only ONE board. I need 10 - 50 boards.

With Probing/Digitizing I do NOT get all the detail that I get with IBILD, but I can get 40-50% and I can get at least the contour of the surface. The digitizing will get me hundreds of points (point cloud data) to which I can "?somehow?" create a surface STL or some other 3D model.

As of yet, I do not have the probe or software. I also do not have the knowledge as to how to create the 3D model from the point cloud data. I am working on that.

As to timing - I am thinking maybe February - March timeframe to upgrade my machine.
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Adrian »

Leo wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:00 am
Adrian wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:06 pm
The Regular Grid Importer gadget can 100% create a model from a point cloud file but as I said in the other thread it depends on the format of the point cloud file.
Agreed.

I have not yet been sucessful.

It seems there are perhaps hundreds of formats.

The Regular Grid Importer supports 4
What format does your probing setup create? Changing the gadget to work with it or converting the format itself shouldn't be that tricky.

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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by Leo »

Adrian,

What the Centroid does is to take the Point Cloud Data and automatically create a G-Code file. The intent is to probe a surface - stick a cutter in the machine then cut the surface.

Like this
Say I have a ceramic horse statue. I mount that on the machine bed and probe it. I take the ceramic horse off and stick a piece of wood on the machine, put a cutter in the spindle and run the digitized code and cut the horse.

It is a *.dig file.
20r (1).zip
(77.88 KiB) Downloaded 56 times
I just found out that Rhino can open the file if it is converted to JUST point data, and that Centroid can convert it as well, it become a .TXT file when converted.

Of course all the g-code can be stripped away, and leave JUST the point data, but I have not had time to do that.

Also, I do not yet have Centroid.

I am sure there is a way, but I cannot play with it until I clear my machine of customer work. I do not want to shut down in middle of customer work.

The challenge is - convert point cloud - or - G-code to STL
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by IslaWW »

Leo...
I've spoken to a friend that has done this. Even tho he uses much higher priced software than Aspire, the process is the same, and he noted there are a number of super cheap or free programs that will make a conversion. Here are the steps:

1) Use the Centroid Digitize Grid feature (dot DIG file)
2) Using a text editor (like me he uses NotePad2) delete the header and footer lines, leaving only the XYZ coordinate lines
3) Delete all "G1"
4) Delete all "X"
5) Replace all "Y" with a comma ","
6) Replace all "Z" with a comma ","
7) Save file as "filename".CSV

Paul Rountree's CSV to 3D will rad that file and prep a toolpath, that toolpath can be converted into a model in Aspire
Other programs may be able to convert the file with XYZ (G1 removed) data without the conversion, others may prefer the CSV version, you'll have to determine which one works best for your use
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Re: Creating a modeling surface from point cloud data

Post by adze_cnc »

Leo,

Quick import into Rhino and mesh from point cloud: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgfEYBnBPosjkT24USJ ... o?e=qlAREq

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