alignment with rotary to xyz

[chemstock]

I am trying to align an xyz job with a rotary job. What I am looking for is to mill the end of a rotary job. Only way I can think this would work is if I can do a XYZ mill on the project prior to the rotary machining. This means using a 3D component in two files, one xyz and one rotary.
On a rotary job, I cannot choose where the model is split (0 degree) so I think I have to rotate the model on the xyz project.
I have done one job (photos attached) where the lid orientation was not critical and milled separately from the rotary model. The lid was rotated to match the body. What I would like to mill the zxy and the rotary project in one piece.
As well, I have found that the scaling between the model running on two files a little problematic. I don't cut the model, instead I simply extend it beyond the material boundary (on the rotary) and delete the model below the material boundary on the xyz. The only way I can get a good match is to mill the rotary, take physical measurements and try to scale the xyz to match. In Aspire the 2D measurement tools are excellent in xyz, rotary I use the measure tool to create profiles but I have trouble getting the precision I need.
As well, importing a 3D component into a rotary model doesn't seem to have the flexibility as the xyz version. The models I am importing are larger than the material and what I want is to orient the material within the 3D model to pickup only the component I want to mill. The scaling tools use the bounds of the 3D component, not the bounds of the portion that I want to include.
Has anyone done this?

[chemstock]

some further notes;
This was a segmented material build. I used Aspire to create all the segments with the circular copy tool to create the segment and the nesting tool to cut the copies out on the lumbar. This method uses a little more material than a table saw but the precision is unbeatable. The hamburger model uses 14 disks, each with 6 segments cut with 60degree arcs. The bottom two disks were solid, the remainder of the disks had an ID. The OD is a little larger than the model, the ID was estimated using the measurement and profile tools in 3D and an allowance for 3/4" wall thickness (cut down on a lathe after the job is complete.
I uses a 4mm machining allowance, anything less I tend to get roughing remnants surviving the fine pass. This seems to me to be larger than the machining allowances I use in xyz
Hats off to the programmers at Aspire, no way I could have considered this project without the software.

[TReischl]

What I got out of all that is if you do a rotary project and make a lid using XYZ you are having issues keeping things centered up in relation to each other? That is what I see in your last pic.

I have done things EXACTLY like you are trying to do, segments and all. One word: Challenging.

Things have to be set up as close to perfect as you can get them.

What I tried, this might get a bit long winded. . . .

Glue up segmented base, turn inside on manual lathe.
Try to get it all aligned, centered, etc on the rotary to turn the outside.
Flat out was a PITA and I was never successful doing it that way. Got real close once by fitting about the first inch onto a mandrel/spud I cut on the rotary. The biggest problem I had was that there seemed to be a difference in centerlines between the manual lathe and the rotary when transferring the chuck from one to another. That is why the spud/mandrel thing worked best. Problem is getting that spud right on the rotary because the piece was manually turned, so who knows what it is exactly?

The next attempt worked the best.

Model up object. Split into ring segments in CAD. Then I had both the inside and outside profiles.
Glued up rings, flattened per usual.
Fixtured rings on machine using a vise with a cutout fitting the rings.
Machined the insides of all the rings.
Very, VERY carefully glued them together paying attention to alignment so there was minimal sanding left.
Machine a spud on the rotary, now it was accurate because I had modeled the inside and cut it on the lathe. Mount the piece on the mandrel.
Rotary cut it.

Here is an example:

The taper you see on the top edges was caused by my stupidity. I lost the zero on my rotary axis before starting and did not reset it correctly.

Making the lid for anything you cut on the rotary is sort of like doing it on a manual lathe. Turn female piece on lathe, then turn lid to fit.

The trick is centering things like this. In a raw piece of wood it would not matter, but other stuff, it is important, like segmented lids.

The best thing I have found to do is cut a fixture on the machine, then mount the lid. That way there is no doubt about where the center of it is.

BTW, I also think using the segmented technique is the absolute best way to go about making these things. The reason is that every turner knows that after he is done turning that piece is anything but round a day or so later. Looks round, but isn't. If you want a nice snug fit on a lid not having round is an issue.

Hope this helps you out. It is quite the challenge and I lost quite a few brain cells working on it.

[chemstock]

Thanks a lot, your photo shows what I am striving for, at least I have an inking that it is possible. I have been using segments for several years. On a lathe, I have sometimes hollowed as the disk stack is built but haven't tried that on the CNC (yet). I think the the real trick will be to align the xyz to the rotary. My ultimate goal is to carve something like a rose bud or a finial where milling can be from the radial and the vertical axis. My current thought is to mark the 3D model with an index (hole or ridge) that I will sand or file off after the milling is complete. That index will be used to go between radial and xyz.

I was really hoping for "This is the tool in Aspire" or some other kind of magic. borrowing other peoples intellect is much easier than using my own!

Thanks again.