10.5 extremely buggy.

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relayerbob
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10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by relayerbob »

Watch out for this upgrade and back up your files with a new name, or risk destroying good material.

1 - They don't tell you that you can't step back to 10.022 but as soon as you save the file, it changes it, making it backwards incompatible. They don't tell you until it's too late that you need to change your filename (if they are going to do this, it should prompt you like Word and others do in this class of expensive software - OR it should automatically change the file extension to prevent over-writing the original file)

2 - It messes with the post-processor, in my case, installing the wrong one first, and then executing the new one incorrectly

3 - On three occasions (out of three attempts), I've had major failures, in one, the software converted curves to straight lines, ruining the piece entirely. In the next two cases, the software drove the bit (at random times, but associated with arcs, as far as I can tell) way down into the workpiece (in one case all the way to the spoilboard, jamming the bit and nearly damaging my spindle in the process). It threw off the zero, causing lost time in the first case, and probably a wasted blank in the second (the first error was luckily recoverable, as the bit went off while moving away from the part).

In the first two instances, I tried to blame myself, but after three failures in three attempts, on a design that had worked fine on 10.022 on over a dozen previous pieces in the last month or two, I came here, and saw all the comments that echo things I'm seeing. This software is dangerously unreliable. Had that bit snapped after being driven incorrectly, I, or someone near me, could have been injured or my CNC damaged.

I have reported this to customer service, who apologized and admitted the post files were not used properly in the upgrade, and that Vectric has decided that no file will ever be backward compatible. I find this unacceptable in a dot level (ie 10.0 to 10.5) release. Perhaps if it was 11.0 ( a major release) it could be expected. BUT AT LEAST INFORM YOUR USERS THAT THE FILE IS FOREVER MODIFIED AND USELESS IN THE EVENT OF A FAILURE. And furthermore, CHANGE THE D*MN FILE NAME SO IT DOESN'T CORRUPT THE ORIGINAL FILE!!!!! And, since my backups automatically occur weekly, my backup file is corrupted also.

And don't ship buggy software. These are not word processors, these operate on CNC machines with serious consequences for failures.

They've already issued upgrades to the upgrade, with another one sitting in the bin right now. The release is incredibly buggy and costing time and money.

This is not shareware, or open-sourced stuff. This cost me (and likely all of you), over $1500. I have two years of work invested in this software, and my most recent design was built in 10.0 and is now unusable.

I cannot trust running this mess, and cannot just step back to 10.0. IT HAS SHUT DOWN MY BUSINESS!!!

VECTRIC, you need to get these files usable in 10.0. Now.

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martin54
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by martin54 »

What does the toolpath preview look like? If everything is correct with the toolpath preview & you have been told that the problem is with the post processor then changing to the correct post processor will sort the problems you have had, Vectric software has never been backward compatible, not sure if it is mentioned on their website but I know because it has come up on the forum a number of times.

Any files that haven't been opened & saved with 10.5 will still open in 10 without any issues.

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TReischl
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by TReischl »

Nah, I am going to upgrade anyhow.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

relayerbob
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by relayerbob »

martin54 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:42 pm
What does the toolpath preview look like? If everything is correct with the toolpath preview & you have been told that the problem is with the post processor then changing to the correct post processor will sort the problems you have had, Vectric software has never been backward compatible, not sure if it is mentioned on their website but I know because it has come up on the forum a number of times.

Any files that haven't been opened & saved with 10.5 will still open in 10 without any issues.
The preview is fine. The postprocessor was fixed after the first failed attempt, the next two occurred after changing to the correct PP. I have no idea why the router plunged in the last two failed operations, it hasn't happened before, and happened immediately after upgrading. I mean, I make a dozen of a particular design without significant problems, the last one 4 days before the upgrade, with the same setup and then upgrade software and have three failures out of three attempts. The first one is explained by the fact that the migration process says it will load all the PPs correctly, but didn't, and Vectric acknowledged that as an error. The next two are bizarre and leave me seriously wondering how to proceed. I've also seen non-damaging but odd behaviors, like a large pocket that was previously moving in a nice raster fashion change after the upgrade (and recompiling the toolpath) to stopping midstream, going all the way across the piece, doing a little bit of it , then moving all the back to where it left off and continuing. Coincidence? Maybe, but I'm not a big believer in coincidences. Especially in light of the number of minor updates they've had in the past few days.

As far as backward compatibility, there are two simple solutions - one is to tell one's customers about it when the migration window opens, not have them find out in a forum or in some FAQ after it's too late and the damage is done .... make it real clear, again when the migration window opens, that files saved in version X are not compatible and to back your files to a new name before using. The second, and better, solution is to adjust file extensions with each major rev (of course, I wouldn't assume a dot rev to be a major rev, that would be going from 10 to 11, not 10 to 10.5). If I couldn't run my accounting, or office or even CAD software without reading and writing old files, between people with slightly different versions of software, my business - and most people's - would be crushed under the burden.

Anyway, thanks for answering. I have found I can copy and paste most of the material back into a new file that I save with the old, more reliable version, so while it'll take a while, I can reconstruct my design while waiting to see if version 10.5 ever stabilizes. Learned a big lesson here in not upgrading ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it, eh?

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martin54
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by martin54 »

You can probably copy the whole design & then paste it into a new file using V10

Open 10.5 select everything & then copy. open V10 set up a new page & then select paste :lol: :lol:

Personally I haven't had any problems with 10.5 & I have done a number of jobs with it. Completely different CNC machine & control software though so not all post processors have been affected.

I can see your point about the compatability issue, I assumed everyone knew but obviously I shouldn't make assumptions like that :lol: :lol: Yes some sort of warning would probably be a good idea.

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TReischl
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by TReischl »

Sounds like you are not a believer in creating backups.

If something is critical to your business, like designs, then you should have a copy of those designs stored off line on a portable drive, thumb drive or the cloud. Then remember to never work directly on them. Some of us even use a rolling backup in which we have several versions of critical files stored.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Moosechaser »

After fooling around for 2 days since update I have to agree with relayerbob . I have had nothing but issues first is I do all designs in inches and used shapeoko inch gcode to send to my shapeoko XXl with vcarve pro and carbide motion PP .now had to switch to metric PP in shapeoko to eliminate arc error messages. files in original VC pro 10 now cut at least .015 too deep with version 10.5 and blow out the design. which from this forum has been a issue in the past but i never encountered it till now , arc errors that is... I also yesterday updated the latest VC 10.504 same problem.. so I checked carbide motion and updated it to version 5 .. No difference for my problems... i have been using and updating for a yr. and never any issues till now..I guess my questions are

1. why do i now need metric system to send to PP and had to change carbide motion to metric also. ( From reading arc error issues it
seems to me the issue falls in the decimal place issues between metric and inch when calculating a arc...but then again i might be
wrong , i read so much I'm really confused now... :)
2. why do the same files cut as designed in VC10 not cut and or overcut in VC 10.5 and 10.504
3. are all my prior files unusable as oriignally designed and saved in inch gcode. VC 10
4. from prior post above im afraid to open any other files and re-save them as it seems to not work then
5. and from above post I take it cannot go back to v10 and use the v10.5 saved file , but will all others not opened still work
6. can i send from vcarve to PP in metric and still have Carbide motion Jog screen set to inches I tried both i seen no difference.

Im not a computer guru but have a year in learning this software and always was impressed until now.. im at a standstill with work and
dont know if i have something wrong setup.. wasted much wood just trying different setting the last few days.
any help would be appreciated
thanks

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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Bob Reda »

I have run every upgrade since vectric v- carve version 1. I am running a shopbot with shopbot control software on a computer that has run anything from windows xp to ver 10. My work computer is running windows 10, my shop computer is on version 7 which I will be upgrading to windows 10. I am doing this so I can run a baby monitor to watch the shopbot and can step away for a while on a large file. I have never had a incident with any of the updates. Maybe I'm lucky. Don't know, if I was I should have hit the lotto by now. It seems that there are a couple of problems with one or two post processors. Be patient, vectric will work it out. They have a rather large testing base, however a lot of the problems don' t happen until the release. Why? Because of the thousands of machines and computers involved with all their customers. Everyone running a lot of different systems on a lot of different computers on a lot of machines, not counting the windows upgrades that are mostly for security but can affect the performance of the computer. Most folks get the upgrades for the specific purpose of new features and or performances. I hosted their very first group meeting in Donora Pa back in whenever. Tony didn't want to come cause he didn't think anyone would attend. And I say this for this reason, since then I have received a update every time between two major releases and the cost has been FREE. Just like this one. Have faith, they will fix things This is the way they have always been and I don't see any reason that they would do anything different. I will now get off my soapbox and continue working on my baby camera.
Thank You
Bob

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Adrian
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Adrian »

Moosechaser wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm
After fooling around for 2 days since update I have to agree with relayerbob....
Have you applied the 10.504 patch? There was an error with the grbl post processors (which the Shapeoko ones link to) that is fixed in the latest patch.

Use the Help menu item Check for Updates or click on the link displayed in the top right of the Aspire/VCarve/Cut2D screen.

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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Moosechaser »

Yes 10.504 . I installed yesterday
thanks

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dealguy11
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by dealguy11 »

Most of the problems I have seen on this forum with respect to V10.5 are related to post-processors. I made this comment in another thread and will make it here as well. There is no reason to update your post-processors when you update the software. To put it even more positively, DO NOT update your post processors when the software updates unless there is a compelling reason to do it. Post processors are very machine specific. If you have one that works with your machine, there is no reason at all to update it. Vectric very rarely changes how it interfaces with post-processors, so you're not going to get any new features by loading the latest post-processor. Many machine manufacturers will tell you to only use the one that the machine manufacturer provides. This makes sense, because they know a lot more about how their machines and controllers work than Vectric does.

If you put your working post-processor in the My_PostP folder in Application Data Folders under the File menu, it will copy it from release to release. Most of us who have been using the software for years did that a long time ago. I would never even consider using a new post-processor provided by Vectric on my machine...it works and should continue to work through coming releases. Since the post-processor didn't change, none of the problems you're seeing have emerged for me.
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Moosechaser »

thanks i will do that once i get straightened out for sure

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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by tunacnc »

So I seem to be having the same problem with the post processor. The bit is plunging into the wood about a half inch below what I've set as zero. I upgraded from vCarve 10 to Aspire 10.5. Is it possible to copy the post processor from vCarve 10 into the Aspire 10.5? And if so, how do I do that?
Its the Axiom HHC CNC post processor.

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Adrian
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by Adrian »

tunacnc wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:45 am
So I seem to be having the same problem with the post processor. The bit is plunging into the wood about a half inch below what I've set as zero. I upgraded from vCarve 10 to Aspire 10.5. Is it possible to copy the post processor from vCarve 10 into the Aspire 10.5? And if so, how do I do that?
Its the Axiom HHC CNC post processor.
There's no difference in those post processors between 10 and 10.5 so I'd say your issue is something else.

Are you setting the z-zero in the same vertical position (top of material or top of table) in VCarve and when you set it on the machine?

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gkas
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Re: 10.5 extremely buggy.

Post by gkas »

tunacnc wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:45 am
Its the Axiom HHC CNC post processor.
I'm running an Axiom AR8 Pro+ with no problems. The same post I ran in Vcarve 9, Aspire 10, 10.5. You can always re-download it from Axiom. I'm still running their vanilla version. It's definitely not a problem with a post change...because it hasn't.

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