10.5 and xp

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Mike-S
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Mike-S »

Finally got trial Aspire 10.5 to work. Loaded and edited one of the sample files on a Win 7 machine and saved cut files to a thumb drive and then out to the shop and loaded those onto the XP machine that runs the CNC. "Only" had to run back and forth 3 times to make tweaks to the files. But it did cut in the end.
Good to hear Adam at Vectric is on this.
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Jim_in_PA
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Jim_in_PA »

TReischl wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:29 pm
Jim_in_PA wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:45 pm
For you folks on Mach3, consider that it's been kinda toast since something like 2012......
Curious where you get the idea that it is "toast"? My "toast" has been running for over 13 years now and transitioned through several upgrades to Windows, including 10. It runs the machine just fine. Is it the latest/greatest? Nope. Considering that Newfangled Solutions is still actively selling Mach 3 I think your announcement of "toast" is premature at best.
Me thinks that my statement was taken too literally, Ted. It's absolutely true that Mach3 still works and for folks that have had machines going for sometime, it's good that there are workarounds for deficiencies that stem from its age, etc. But like the issue with XP that started this particular thread, at some point, it's good to consider whether or not upgrading is the better choice. That's really the gist of my suggestion. Whether that's Mach4 to stay in that realm or another control system of several great choices that are available is something that folks can and should ponder if they are inclined to upgrade. I will readily admit that I'm in the group of folks who prefer to stay current across the board and accept that not everyone feels the same way.

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TReischl
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by TReischl »

Jim, me thinks you are correct, I took your statement literally. The way I understand "toast" is to mean that something is burned up, non functioning, useless and all those other great descriptions of something that has gone Tango Uniform.

The way I look at control software is that it has a very specific purpose: make the machine go left, right and up/down. Other than that, I am not exactly sure what else it is supposed to do. I do understand that improvements can be made to items like accel/decel strategies, but overall, cnc is pretty much a baked item (not toast, just baked).

One thing that really annoys me is the lack of information put out by companies like Newfangled Solutions. I could not find one solid reason on their website to upgrade to Mach 4 as a user of a typical cnc router. Lots of marketing hype about how modules can be added, etc. That is nice, what module would I be needing to be added? But there was nothing there that stated how it would actually run the machine any better. I get it, their marketing types are targeting machine builders, but it would be nice if they told the rest of us WHY we should spend our nickels and dimes to upgrade when our software is running just fine.

Now, what I find really amazing is that Mach3 was created in such a manner that it does not need to be "installed" into Windows. Just copy the whole darn folder into the C drive and it runs. I do not view things like Ger21's Screenset 2010 as a "workaround". Indeed, that screenset did not evolve because of the age of Mach3 but because the developer had the foresight to build interface customization into the original product. Nor do I view something like Smooth Stepper as a "workaround". Hooking up to a USB port or Ethernet is not a workaround since there were no changes required in the software or sneaky techniques.

I guess I have reached that place in life where I do not go out and buy a new car because some gizmos (that are expensive to repair when they quit working) have been added. A car to me these days is something that gets me from here to there in reasonable comfort.
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by sawmiller »

Something that is occurring to me as i sit in my shop with a win 10 computer not hooked up to my cnc, right next to a xp hooked up to the cnc, is this isnt totally bad.
I can work on new aspire projects while the cnc churns in the background and not worry about interfering with the cnc..
Now for a way to connect the 2 so i dont have to play with a usb drive... ethernet and public documents?, might end up with 2 win10 computers in the shop
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Rcnewcomb »

Something that is occurring to me as i sit in my shop with a win 10 computer not hooked up to my cnc, right next to a xp hooked up to the cnc, is this isn't totally bad.
That seems like an elegant solution.
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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by bobrickard »

Just another perspective. As a Mac user, the only non-mac programs I use are Aspire and Shopbot SB3.

SB3 runs on a dedicated Dell laptop which is offline, never updated, and I don't even know what version of Windows it came with, nor do I care. I transfer files to it with a flash drive. I only need to know a few file handling commands and nothing else about Windows.

I've been running Aspire on a Mac under Windows XP Pro via Parallels for eight years and it just works. Again, I don't need to know anything about Windows, as Parallels has a "Coherence" mode where Aspire behaves like a Mac application. So purchasing and installing a newer Windows version isn't so much about the cost, it is the inconvenience of having to learn a new operating system just to run a single application. I don't really want to become a Windows user, just a Mac Aspire user with Windows hidden from me. But I guess at some point that will no longer be possible, and this may be that point.

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Jim_in_PA »

bobrickard wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:50 pm
Just another perspective. As a Mac user, the only non-mac programs I use are Aspire and Shopbot SB3.

SB3 runs on a dedicated Dell laptop which is offline, never updated, and I don't even know what version of Windows it came with, nor do I care. I transfer files to it with a flash drive. I only need to know a few file handling commands and nothing else about Windows.

I've been running Aspire on a Mac under Windows XP Pro via Parallels for eight years and it just works. Again, I don't need to know anything about Windows, as Parallels has a "Coherence" mode where Aspire behaves like a Mac application. So purchasing and installing a newer Windows version isn't so much about the cost, it is the inconvenience of having to learn a new operating system just to run a single application. I don't really want to become a Windows user, just a Mac Aspire user with Windows hidden from me. But I guess at some point that will no longer be possible, and this may be that point.
I'm similar here. The only "native" Windows computer I have is the WinCNC control computer attached to my Camaster CNC. I do all my design and toolpathing, other than, um...mental mistake adjustments and quirky things...on my Macs using Parallels to run Aspire in a Windows VM. I do use Win10 across the board, however.

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Warner Burch »

I have downloaded Aspire 10.5 and able to run it successfully on my Mac using Parallels with Windows 10 and to my PC running Windows 10. I use a separate PC dedicated to run my Shopbot with no internet. I have always been able to copy Aspire to flash drive and run it on my dedicated computer running Windows XP/32. That computer continues to run Aspire 10 without problems. This time when I transferred 10.5 (as 24th of July) to the Windows XP computer and then ask it to start 10.5, the screen said “the application has failed to start because bcrypt.dll not found.” I have attached that screenshot. I also uninstalled 10.5 and reinstalled 10.5 at least 3 times with the same message. I ran sfc /scannow on the Windows XP and no errors were shown and reinstalled 10.5 without success (same error message). After several attempts I notice that one of the prompts, read “Copy failed.” I have attached the photo of that screen with that message at bottom. Any suggestions? I see that Vectric is no longer supporting XP. There are still a number of XP users that that use this software for CNC. Thanks from a long-timed Vectric user and admirer.
Screen Shot 2020-07-25 at 2.41.04 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-07-25 at 2.41.42 PM.png

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Jim_in_PA »

Werner, at the moment based on previous discussion in this thread, it appears you're going to have an issue running 10.5 on that XP machine, both because it's XP and you also mention it's XP/32. Software applications like the Vectric software use certain programming libraries from Microsoft and others and if something isn't there or isn't compatible with the OS installation, the application can't run. They did say they would look into seeing if there is any available solution, but my gut feeling is...well...it's unlikely. But I could be wrong.

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Tailmaker »

Just another perspective....
My 12-year old machine control laptop gave up few months ago and I bought a $800 integrated desktop with 23" touch screen to run my machine controller (Planet-CNC with TNGV2 software). I do have a wireless MPG but sometimes it is convenient to push the machine controller "buttons" directly on the (rather large) screen without fumbling for the mouse. It took about 2 hours to set it up including controller and all the Windows updates. It worked fine right away.
But the PC is capable enough to run the machine in the background and do other stuff at the same time. I know the old recommendation is to not disturb or mess with the machine controller but I have been doing just that including running Aspire, streaming music, reading email and browsing the Internet for the last couple of months without problem while a CNC machine program was running. I can see the buffer to the controller hardware rarely goes below 95%. So, I am happy that I got rid of that old junker PC.

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Adrian »

According to the release notes for 10.506 the XP issues have been fixed.

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by hooby »

Hmm... On Win 10 I have tried to update to 10.506 several times - each time it detects that a new version is available, downloads it and runs it. There are no messages indicating success or failure. However the version of Vcarve remains at 10.505.

Any suggestions?

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by Adrian »

Worked fine for me on VCarve and Aspire. Try rebooting and doing the update again perhaps?

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by mtylerfl »

hooby wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:29 pm
Hmm... On Win 10 I have tried to update to 10.506 several times - each time it detects that a new version is available, downloads it and runs it. There are no messages indicating success or failure. However the version of Vcarve remains at 10.505.

Any suggestions?
Hi,

Be sure to close your existing version of the software before the update installation begins. Otherwise, the update will fail.
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facebook.com/carvebuddy

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Re: 10.5 and xp

Post by ken.gentry »

I am a software engineer with an electrical engineering degree. I've worked with computers since 1981 as a hobbyist and professionally since 1994. My professional experience ranges from embedded systems inside gas pumps to multi-million dollar IBM hardware running 500+ virtual servers. My personal experience ranges from small embedded systems, DOS, Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, Macintosh and many Linux systems. Bottom line is I have seen a lot of system setups, issues and failures.

There is one very important point everybody who says "Windows XP is fine" is missing. Electronics degrade over time. Mechanical hard disks eventually crash. Power supply capacitors burn out causing power supply failures. Wood shops are horribly dusty environments where control PCs ingest dust into every orifice causing all kinds of problems. The reality is these system may run today but they were never intended to operate in dusty environments for years. And when a PC dies it usually goes down hard and will not come back.

What will you tell a customer when a job schedule falls apart because your complacency over maintaining your PC control system finally bites you? When your 10 - 15 year old PC dies you are going to be scrambling to cobble together another PC to replace it. What if the BIOS on your replacement PC will not allow your Windows XP install media to start (BIOS UEFI boot issues)? Do you even have the original Windows XP install media to reinstall? Will you be able to find Windows XP-compatible device drivers for the new PC's hardware? Do you have a system backup to restore your CNC control software?

Do yourself a favor and find an upgrade path to a newer PC with Windows 10 while your old XP system is still running. Move to Mach 4 with an Ethernet or USB controller to get off reliance on the parallel printer port. The parallel printer port is a completely dead technology. There are a few reliable vendors selling PCI cards for parallel ports today but will the vendor care next year. Move to technologies and software that is current and supported with patches and upgrades.

You will say this is expensive but how expensive is down-time? If your PC controller takes a week to replace, reinstall and configure how much income are you losing? How many customers might be lost to a competitor? Do you even have the expertise to replace, reinstall and configure a PC controller or will you be scrambling to find a knowledgeable person that can pull this together (and who would be crazy enough to even touch a Windows XP system)?

I recently bought a HiCon Integra Ethernet controller and Mach4 for $800. I bought a 5 year old used PC off of eBay for $175, installed an SSD boot drive and installed Windows 10. The system is reliable, fast and I have had zero issues. Vectric VCarve works perfectly alongside Mach 4. The only device driver I needed was for the nVidia graphics card. I know if the PC were to die tomorrow I could replace it within hours, not days. Having an Ethernet controller I know will have no issues plugging in almost any system that can run Mach 4.

I'm not trying to insult anyone here. I'm trying to wake you up to the reality that you are on very shaky ground. Saying "If it ain't broke..." is fine for a quality wood working tool that has a designed lifetime of 20 - 30 years. It is not fine for a PC that has a manufacturer's warranty between 1 and 3 years that is only designed to live for 5 - 7 years in a *clean*, climate controlled environment. If your expertise is in the wood shop don't think you can use that same mindset for modern electronics and software.

Ken

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