vector start points

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Peter Stenabaugh
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vector start points

Post by Peter Stenabaugh »

When I am doing certain pocketing operations I need to be able to specify a particular start point for the machining process. Aspire picks a start point based on the angle that is set but that rarely works for what I need to do.

We need to able to pick an absolute start point for all or any operations within Aspire. I know that you can go to the NODE editing option and pick a start point - however at least for pocketing this does NOT work - Aspire totally ignores the new start point and will not start where I need it to. So far I have been able to work around this by setting a different step over, however this often ends up with more passes than is required and it take more time to complete an operation than is necessary or not enough passes with too much of a step over which is even worse.

Bottom line, this software needs to be upgraded to allow the users to pick the start point for any and all operations they want -then let Aspire figure out the tool path based on the selected start point.

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Adrian
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Re: vector start points

Post by Adrian »

Why so confrontational in your posts? :?

If there's something you think the software should have then email Vectric and let them know. They're always adding new features that benefit the user base in each release.

Peter Stenabaugh
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Re: vector start points

Post by Peter Stenabaugh »

I have been through this with vectric before and they suggested that I use the node editing feature, but it doesnt work. I think it is supposed to, but every time I have tried it, including today, by moving the start point, it has no effect on the start point of the pocketing routine. I have asked them about this previously and explained that as users, we need the ability to be able to select the start point for any machining operation, and this was their answer... and that goes back at least 1 year - we still dont have a solution, so I thought I would try again.

I may have been a bit rough on them, but why should we have to ask them twice? I am using Aspire for things that no one else is doing... see my recent post on joining vectors I have a description in there of what I am doing. I am using Aspire to generate code to run a cnc lathe operation... it works very well, but there are some issues that I have to work around. so far I have been successful but if i could select a start point, and have the code actually do that, it would be so great.

hopefully they will be responsive this time. I have had good success with them in the past and I really like this software it is fantastic. i have even suggested to them that they should consider making a lathe program.... goodness knows they could do it so easily. the only program that comes close is ..., which I own, but it has so many issues I have decided to go back to Aspire and I am glad I did. Because i can now machine in 2 directions I have basically cut my run times in half, or close to it.

grummy
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Re: vector start points

Post by grummy »

Well, I don't see "confrontational" in any of your discussion. Your are dead to right when you point out that a program that is supposed to make toolpath code SHOULD allow you to alter ANY path. It certainly is not a new idea.

I always find things missing that unfortunately keep me bouncing back to older programs that are not missing those specific features. And, like you, I'm not saying the program is bad... not at all. It's clearly wonderful at its price point.

I too just wish some of the good and necessary things a person has become familiar with YEARS AGO, and on far more cantankerous and crappy programs, would magically show up in the next upgrade.

Too, I agree with your ... comment..... End users get stuck with stuff that does not do what the seller said it should do or what they advertise as able to do. Just awful for what a person pays out for cad/cam.

I ask again,... why does it seem like Cad/Cam developers wear heavy blinders ? What percentage of them actually USE cad/cam ? Do any of them scour existing, upcoming and competitors programs to see what else is out there for methods and techniques ? Why are there programs out there that a bug can exist or a method can be missing for year after year and nothing gets done about it ? (not specifically saying Vectric has this problem, but I could mention plenty of names).

I'm actually in proprietary software development, but in a far different area. I literally SCOUR for methods and techniques to enhance what I build and waste no time executing such changes. When the changes are such that users might cringe because the change is too much all at once, I write it in as an OPTION or Alternative so they user can choose between the options for a few releases.

FIRST thing I would do with Vectric is write in an option for TRADITIONAL CONFIGURABLE TOOL BARS. That funky "3rd grade overly large kiddy crayons" pop out baloney annoys me to know end. I'd rather have screen space !!!!! But, I understand their target market, and most of them got into this when the rediculously oversized "MS Ribbon" came into play.

Oh, and YES on the Lathe version. I created a post that replaces the axis letters with what I need, but it still only works for the most basic stuff, so I have to use my 15 year old program to actually get the job done. Sadly, that program only runs on XP which is getting to be an annoyance.

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Adrian
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Re: vector start points

Post by Adrian »

Peter Stenabaugh wrote: I may have been a bit rough on them, but why should we have to ask them twice? I am using Aspire for things that no one else is doing...
That's probably why they aren't adding the things you're asking for as they have said on the forum in the past that they only like to add features that benefit a large number of users otherwise the program becomes more and more complicated to use and ease of use (especially for new users) is one of the primary aims.

If more people were having the same problems and raising them I'm sure it would be addressed if possible. That's certainly the way it's worked in the past.

As someone who has been involved in a few public domain programs and several commercial developments I've seen what happens when more and more features are added. The menus and/or option dialogues grow and grow until it gets to the stage that the program is totally bewildering to a new user and they quickly drop the program never to return after only a little use.

The Vectric philosophy is a breath of fresh air after those type of projects IMO.

grummy, I really like the pop out sidebars and I wish more programs had them (more and more are adding them). In this day and age most people have widescreen monitors so they have more screen space horizontally than vertically so vertical bars make more sense than the traditional horizontal toolbars. I like the way they can be detached from the main program window entirely as well. I run a three monitor setup with the whole Aspire window in the middle one, all the panes permanently open on the right and the left one for dragging/dropping vectors into the middle one. I started with computers decades ago so it's not an attachment to MS Ribbons for me anyway. I actually hate those things but to me they're completely different from the Vectric panes in the way they work.

Peter Stenabaugh
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Re: vector start points

Post by Peter Stenabaugh »

Hi Grummy, thanks for the post. it does seem as though we are both on the same page here. I am impressed that you take the time to do what you can to upgrade and enhance your own software, that is a great trait to have in a developer.

I dont now if vectric will ever fix the software. I am not going to waste my time asking again. I am sure they are aware of it, and I am sure they monitor all these posts we create..... so if vectric is awake, please do something about the vector start point issue - we need it even though you dont think we do. Autodesk got to be the mangnate they are today, because they listened to their customers requests.....

Adrian:

I think you also have a good point in that perhaps they dont want the program to get too complicated - however being able to select a machining start point is a basic need for anyone doing cnc. This isnt a great overhead - you can do it with other software, after the tool path has been created, you select almost any spot on the toolpath to be a start point, it is a great feature to have. In fact I have resorted to other software a few times because of this feature alone. The drawback to other software is that it doesnt have a good viewer like Vectric does, but otherwise it is a great program as well.

Rwskinner
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Re: vector start points

Post by Rwskinner »

I would actually appreciate that the Node starting points worked as well.
There has been many times that I have needed it but my starting point is ignored. I figured I was doing something wrong and I asked for help and it seems straight forward enough, but yet the start points are much different than what I selected.

Richard

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TReischl
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Re: vector start points

Post by TReischl »

Hmmm.

I just went back to look at the Vectric website. Kindly correct me if I am wrong, but Vectric seems to be targeting artistic work rather than mechanical work?

That said, I am curious as to what type of artistic work demands such control over start points?

If I were programming machines for mechanical parts I would look for a package that specializes in such. In fact, I would skip right over Aspire because it is not advertised as a system for producing mechanical (machine shop) type parts. Then again, I might not because serious milling packages are way more expensive than Aspire.

Of course, this is all just my opinion!

My vote on this subject is that I do not need more control over start points.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones

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IslaWW
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Re: vector start points

Post by IslaWW »

Guys...
Machining start points can be manipulated by a little "playing" in the raster direction box. I don't do it often enough to make it predictable, but try entering (for raster direction) numbers like 0, 180, -180, 360, -360 or 90, -90, 270 and -270 and see what your results are in the toolpath preview.

I am not an artist, nor have I stayed at a HIX lately. :)
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dealguy11
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Re: vector start points

Post by dealguy11 »

The OP in this thread was asking for ability to set start points for pockets, which I do think would be valuable in certain situations. I would also like this capability for carving toolpaths. As Gary suggests, you can get a little bit of control by changing direction of the raster, but there are times when I've wanted to start at a relatively shallow point of a carving, but didn't have that option. It's not an enormous problem, but would be nice to have the option.
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Ms Wolffie
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Re: vector start points

Post by Ms Wolffie »

IslaWW wrote:Guys....

I am not an artist, nor have I stayed at a HIX lately. :)
Pardon my ignorance but what is HIX :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Cheers
Wolffie
Cheers
Wolffie

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ohiolyons
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Re: vector start points

Post by ohiolyons »

It is a joke from Holiday Inn ads

I'm not an expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
John
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Re: vector start points

Post by GraClay »

I have said on this forum before that Vectric should look at the most basic functions and make them more useable. It's lovely to have all the bells and whistles but for many of us just to profile, pocket, nest, tile, inlay etc are everyday occurrences and completely relevant to their income. The start point issue is very important and for those not affected by it then good luck to you. I have mentioned before the issue with plunging deep into acrylic with a 90 degree V-bit and questioned why Aspire does not give the option to plunge into the shallow points rather than barge full bore into a deeper section. I have also questioned why there is no control of the sequence when pocketing such as why does the software not allow to select the inners cut first or vice versa depending on the situation. An example is attached showing a simple reverse flanged MDF push thru job where the software leaves islands of material that get "smashed" out when those areas are machined last.
I guess it's better for some to have the functions that machine models machined "beautifully" into perfectly non artistic "signs" rather than "complicate" the software with too many functions for beginners. But this post is in reference to the flagship, top of the line Aspire product. This is not in reference to the entry level Cut2d but what the hell would I know?
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Ms Wolffie
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Re: vector start points

Post by Ms Wolffie »

ohiolyons wrote:It is a joke from Holiday Inn ads

I'm not an expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
Thank you :D
Cheers
Wolffie

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Peter Stenabaugh
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Re: vector start points

Post by Peter Stenabaugh »

As an update to the vector start points blog that I started last year..... I just finished watching the 'what's new' video set for Aspire 8 - and I have also upgraded to Aspire 8 today as well. In these videos I see that they are using the 'set as a start point' with regards to changing the default node start point for a Vcarving routine. I haven't personally tried the new software yet, but this is exactly the ability that I feel is needed and what I have been requesting for some time.

I know that the previous version of Aspire had this feature as well, but although the start point actually changed position in the graphics, it did not seem to make any changes to the machining processes, certainly not any that I have ever tried. So I am hoping now that Vectric has resolved the issue that seemed to be present in the previous version and I loudly applaud their efforts to make these changes.

Assuming that they will now work as they are supposed to do, I would like to thank Vectric for listening to my rants, and some others as well and making these changes.

Great job folks, love your software - easy to use and very powerful, great value for the money.

Pete Stenabaugh
Calgary

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