Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

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LittleGreyMan
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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by LittleGreyMan »

Well, it is not as smooth as the smaller jpeg I used for test, but it's usable. Not really satisfactory, but usable: i could easily trace Maxine's scarf. But I had to zoom in and out and pan slowly to avoid jerk.

I confirm it's much smoother in the 3d view. I thought Vectric is using a lower resolution for bitmaps in this view but I don't see a difference when zooming.

I suggest 2 tracks:
-use a Parallel VM with the default values (RAM, number of cores). Increasing them may decrease performance (see Steven's link and Parallels KB)
-reduce the pixel size of your picture

I could not reduce the size of your jpeg (I mean the size in pixels, not the compression factor) to test because I can't copy the image from the trial version in an external editor. If you want me to test another picture size on my configuration, just drop the original one on the drive.

In V12, you have the option of drawing directly in the 3D view, provided you select the top view.

You can also write to Vectric support: VM are not officially supported, however they generally try to help and solve problem.

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Adrian
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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by Adrian »

I have no issues with it on my PC but I still think that the picture is part of the problem as per my original reply. People in past have had exactly the issues you're reporting it and it was the picture itself in those cases.
Last edited by Adrian on Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

RaymondJR
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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

LittleGreyMan wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:09 pm
Well, it is not as smooth as the smaller jpeg I used for test, but it's usable. Not really satisfactory, but usable: i could easily trace Maxine's scarf. But I had to zoom in and out and pan slowly to avoid jerk.

I confirm it's much smoother in the 3d view. I thought Vectric is using a lower resolution for bitmaps in this view but I don't see a difference when zooming.

I suggest 2 tracks:
-use a Parallel VM with the default values (RAM, number of cores). Increasing them may decrease performance (see Steven's link and Parallels KB)
-reduce the pixel size of your picture

I could not reduce the size of your jpeg (I mean the size in pixels, not the compression factor) to test because I can't copy the image from the trial version in an external editor. If you want me to test another picture size on my configuration, just drop the original one on the drive.

In V12, you have the option of drawing directly in the 3D view, provided you select the top view.

You can also write to Vectric support: VM are not officially supported, however they generally try to help and solve problem.
Thanks so much for testing this. I really appreciate you taking the time from your day to help an unknown person in need. And mostly thanks for comparing Im not crazy lol.

I will keep playing with settings and will try a smaller file as well.

I did actually contact Vectric support and I was very disappointed to get copy and paste we don't support parallels emails flooding my inbox. But eventually I had the support at least try to do what I was asking and he did and said it was fine on his fairly pedantic spec'd PC. So here on the forum I am. I get they can't support something like parallels but I would also say they went straight to not helping rather than even entertaining it might be a Vectric side issue. Everything else runs smooth except this one feature so it does seem more than just a VM situation? but who knows. I imagine they are pretty busy having just changed their entire interface so might have more than enough to do without entertaining a parallels user at the moment. I don't feel like I am getting my $3200CAD worth of effort from support, no I don't - but I guess I signed up for that when I chose to use a VM for their most expensive software, so all good. Not here to complain... Just trying to get it working.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NP2UTw ... sp=sharing is the original if you care to play around. I really do appreciate you trying.

I also found a VM laying around that had 12.004 so I might give that a whirl and see if it changes anything.

Ray.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

Adrian wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:25 pm
I have no issues with it on my PC but I still think that the picture is part of the problem as per my original reply. People in past have had exactly the issues you're reporting it and it was the picture itself in those cases.
I have tried a few different pictures after your comment earlier. I will try making those way smaller resolution pas other comments I have received as well and see if that eases the burden on the system. Thanks again for assisting me.

Ray.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

RaymondJR wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:54 pm
Adrian wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:25 pm
I have no issues with it on my PC but I still think that the picture is part of the problem as per my original reply. People in past have had exactly the issues you're reporting it and it was the picture itself in those cases.
I have tried a few different pictures after your comment earlier. I will try making those way smaller resolution pas other comments I have received as well and see if that eases the burden on the system. Thanks again for assisting me.

Ray.
OK so my findings so far: smaller resolution file still very slow, maybe 10% improvement but no where near passable. V12.005 in a different VM I found, much better but still very slow, maybe 30-40% better? So something has changed since then to .008 for sure, but it still wasn't great at all. Going back all the way to V11.5 - smooth as butter but of course Id miss out on all the V12 modelling improvements as well as seeing vectors in 3d view which I have become accustomed to.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by Rcnewcomb »

Have you contacted Parallels Mac support to see if they can help troubleshoot the issue?
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LittleGreyMan
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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by LittleGreyMan »

You're welcome Ray.

First, we can't blame Vectric. That's our choice to use a Mac and a VM. Vectric's requirements states "2 Ghz Multi-Core X86 or x64 CPU", which is NOT the case or our ARM Macs.
So, we have:
-a VM creating a virtual PC
-a virtual PC running an ARM (and not an x64) Windows
-an ARM Windows emulating an x86 CPU to run an x86 software

Given the way Vectric software is running in this complex situation, all I can say is that Parallels has probably very good coders and that Vectric code is probably also very good (that's why you can run it on relatively low end PCs).

The bitmap is obviously the issue as Aspire regains reactivity when you delete it in your project.

I downsized the bitmap size to 1112x1049 and it's a little better. This resolution is still OK for tracing.

Did you try tracing in the 3D view? If this is OK for you, it's probably a better way than getting stuck with an old VM and an old version of Aspire.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by LittleGreyMan »

BTW, it would be interesting if somebody could test on an ARM PC and see if there is the same issue.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

LittleGreyMan wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:46 pm
You're welcome Ray.

First, we can't blame Vectric. That's our choice to use a Mac and a VM. Vectric's requirements states "2 Ghz Multi-Core X86 or x64 CPU", which is NOT the case or our ARM Macs.
So, we have:
-a VM creating a virtual PC
-a virtual PC running an ARM (and not an x64) Windows
-an ARM Windows emulating an x86 CPU to run an x86 software

Given the way Vectric software is running in this complex situation, all I can say is that Parallels has probably very good coders and that Vectric code is probably also very good (that's why you can run it on relatively low end PCs).

The bitmap is obviously the issue as Aspire regains reactivity when you delete it in your project.

I downsized the bitmap size to 1112x1049 and it's a little better. This resolution is still OK for tracing.

Did you try tracing in the 3D view? If this is OK for you, it's probably a better way than getting stuck with an old VM and an old version of Aspire.
Totally agree with your assessment of the situation. Yes I have been using the 3d, but then I have to go back to the 2d for the scissors tool which is a big part of the process I am using But hey, focussed on the bright side, at least it all works and at least the 3d windows is so much more responsive.

The bitmap is for sure the issue. I feel like if Vectric support took me seriously we could work it out but I'm thinking I will need to wait until someone native PC gets the same issue (or buy myself a **shudder** Windows PC... JK!)

Ray.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

LittleGreyMan wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:48 pm
BTW, it would be interesting if somebody could test on an ARM PC and see if there is the same issue.
Yeah I was also wondering this. And also wondering if Vectric will need to port an ARM version to address these PC's one day and if that port might make our lives smooth in the Mac ARM world. But it's all dare to dream at this stage.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

Rcnewcomb wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:11 pm
Have you contacted Parallels Mac support to see if they can help troubleshoot the issue?
I am going g to do that but I'm hesitant just because all of it works so well except when I click on this one tool in the interface IF I have an image layer on... If that doesn't sound like a program not using its resources efficiently for that part of the program then I do not know what does. (Especially as it's kind of half as bad in V12.004 as Ive discovered). But yes I will call them maybe they can diagnose it further.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

A couple of updates:

If anyone is interested in a screen recording of the issue: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1erGOxH ... sp=sharing

Updated to V12.009 thins morning - no change.

Parallels has a ticket open and have tried a few things with me, no change yet. If they end up fixing ut somehow I will let the forum know as it might be of value to some.

It dawns on me Vectric brought back some functionality to the line/poly line tool around the versions where I started having problems (between 5 and 8?). Related possibly?

Aslo, I watched a video of Rebecca doing the Birdie and she's doing exactly the same technique I am doing and man she has no lag at all does she :-). Might have to get a cheap windows laptop....

Ray.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by LittleGreyMan »

RaymondJR wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:50 pm
If anyone is interested in a screen recording of the issue: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1erGOxH ... sp=sharing
As I said before, it's not smooth here, but you have much more lag than I have.

Did you try with a standard VM (ie, with the default memory, number of CPUs, …) and a standard installation of Aspire?

You can compare our machines: see the specs of mine in a previous post.

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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by Rcnewcomb »

Might have to get a cheap windows laptop....
I ran Vectric software using VMware on Mac for years. Eventually I had my VMware instance get corrupt and the backups were unreadabale.

I decided to spin up a dedicated Windows machine and then use Remote Desktop on the Mac to connect to the windows machine. I've been very satisfied with this solution. l've also played with connecting the Mac to Windows instances in the cloud (Citrix, Azure, AWS), and these seem equally robust. The Citrix solution supports multiple monitors which is great.
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Re: Trace an imported image m1 Mac (Parallels) super slow

Post by RaymondJR »

LittleGreyMan wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 5:41 pm
RaymondJR wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:50 pm
If anyone is interested in a screen recording of the issue: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1erGOxH ... sp=sharing
As I said before, it's not smooth here, but you have much more lag than I have.

Did you try with a standard VM (ie, with the default memory, number of CPUs, …) and a standard installation of Aspire?

You can compare our machines: see the specs of mine in a previous post.
I knew I had done this before, but just to make sure I jut installed a fresh, default Parallels Win 11 VM, and then installed Aspire 12.009 made no changes, copied over the same file and ran it. Very much identical issues. Im sure this retina display on my MacBook Pro doesn't help matters and might be the only difference between our machines (Other than I have 64GM ram but that should help not hinder - or be neutral). I'm not Sur I hav mentioned this before, but I also have a Mac mini M2, 16GB and I have parallels standard on that, same issues (and no Retina display there). It might be a tech better but not "better".

I have been running (after I dug up an old install file) 12.004 and I have to say it's pretty zippy. The 2D with image is still a bit laggy but it's much better and usable enough compared to anything past 007. There is something that has been done in recent updates that upsets the parallels installs for sure.

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