un-grouping letters

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martin54
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by martin54 »

Leo, my guess would be that having noticed that some letters don't look to be carved deep enough, due to the board possibly not being flat then the z zero position is re set in the area that the shallow cut letter is & then cut that letter again :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by laflippin »

No offense taken, my friend! The OP was concerned with "ungrouping" text and creating individual letters with individual carving parameters is a solution for that, which you nicely pointed out. As far as specific applications where it makes sense to do that, I don't advocate it to solve the problem that the poster described later in the thread. I agree with the simple answer provided by others--plane and square the workpiece. In theory, I suppose one "might" attempt to compensate for non-planarity of the workpiece if one could estimate an average value for the surface height difference between adjacent areas of interest. But that would be so difficult, and likely so unsatisfactory in the end that it would only be worth considering if the non-planarity were a desirable or even necessary feature of the workpiece. In a simpler case where both sides of a workpiece are actually planar, but not parallel, a lengthy word expressed over a longish distance on the workpiece "might" benefit from an attempt to estimate the grade of the carving surface so that individual letters could be carved with slightly different start depths to compensate for their positions on the grade....but that type of problem can usually be better solved with a planar. In one extreme case of non-planarity of the surface, for example, carving a word across a set of contiguous areas on the workpiece that are not co-planar, but are at least locally planar areas, and all parallel with the bottom surface...well, that is an easy argument for creating a word out of individual letters which can be separately carved to the same depth in their respective spots. For really difficult problems, for example carving a depth-corrected word across a highly irregular surface, say on an uneven piece of driftwood...I don't have any ideas, practical or impractical, about how to do that. I would certainly sit up and listen if someone does have an approach to that problem. A good solution of that problem might look stunning.

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by TReischl »

blacktrain wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:17 pm
If I create a word by typing, for exampe: (GOLDEN) and want to V-carve it, when I select the word GOLDEN the whole word is grouped, but if I select to un-group it, it still is grouped. Is there a way to un-group the word? I appreciate anyone's help. Thanks...
Whoa. . . hold it. . .

Notice the user is v carving, not single line font cutting. You do not control how the letter looks by instructing the tool to cut deeper. In fact, it is not possible. The vectors control the depth of cut. All the depth of cut in the vcarve strategy does is spec a flat area.

The only way I know to make it cut deeper is by adjusting the Z zero on the machine.

To work with bumpy board a person would have to work with offsetting the vectors for certain letters. Tedious at best, prone to failure.

This is very different than projecting a vcarve onto a known 3D surface.
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by TReischl »

laflippin wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:42 pm
..... For really difficult problems, for example carving a depth-corrected word across a highly irregular surface, say on an uneven piece of driftwood...I don't have any ideas, practical or impractical, about how to do that. I would certainly sit up and listen if someone does have an approach to that problem. A good solution of that problem might look stunning.
The only solution I know is to digitize the surface, then pass that information into Aspire as a model and then project to the surface.

I have a 3D probe for my machine, think I have used it about once. It was something I was interested in for a project I was doing. Essentially that project was determining the curves on a hand turned piece that was then mounted in the rotary axis. Allowed me to create the surface so that I could then vcarve. Frankly, much easier to just create the surface on the rotary. Just like it is much easier to mill the surface of the board and forget some contortionist work around.
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by laflippin »

I have a 3D probe for my machine, think I have used it about once. Hah! That's exactly as many times as I've used my 3D probe as well. I did very much like the result--copied a pair of plastic H&R .22 pistol grips at pretty high resolution and carved the models out of red oak.....but that was it. It was quite the tedious process, not something that I will be likely to do again.

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by Leo »

Ted, You are hitting my point exactly. The problem is -- we really do not know what blacktrain is running into, therefore, we are "guessing".

If blacktrain could engage more in the discussion we could did deeper and come up with a better solution, but for whatever reason, blacktrain is not engaging. That's OK, but I just don't want to continue speculating and guessing. For all I know, blacktrain just doesn't want to engage further. Maybe they found their way and don't need this any longer. That's OK too.

So - that's that.
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by martin54 »

Leo the OP did come back after the initial post, this was the reply

Thank you for the quick reply. I like to have the ability to un-group the letters of a word because sometimes if your board is not perfectly flat some letters may be cut deeper than others, by having the ability to un-group you can select just the letters you want to make a little deeper without cutting all the rest, and then you can get them really close to being all the same. Thank you again...

That's how we got on to making sure the board was flat & parallel to the spindle :lol: :lol:

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by TReischl »

martin54 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:21 am
....

That's how we got on to making sure the board was flat & parallel to the spindle :lol: :lol:
LOL, we better make sure the board is NOT parallel to the spindle. . . .

But we all knew what you meant.
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by laflippin »

Perpindicular, parallel.....what’s 90 degrees among friends? :lol:

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by martin54 »

TReischl wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:15 am
martin54 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:21 am
....

That's how we got on to making sure the board was flat & parallel to the spindle :lol: :lol:
LOL, we better make sure the board is NOT parallel to the spindle. . . .

But we all knew what you meant.
Hard to believe I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering with statements like that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Mind you it was a very long time ago :oops:

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by Leo »

You can make sure the board is parallel to the spindle. I can understand that.

What I cannot under stand is why. But then, maybe you want to do some "end" working. :lol:
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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by blacktrain »

WOW, I sure did open up a can of worms. I certainly did not mean to create any problems for anyone. First of all I am a newbie to the cnc world, and I have so much to learn, and I am a slow learner. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. I realize it is important to have a flat board to begin with. I run into a situation where my board was not perfectly flat and I wanted to make a couple of letters deeper, but not all of them. Even though by doing this, I know all the letters will be at different depths, I realize this but for what I was doing it wasn't a big deal because I was just making a welcome sign for myself, and it doesn't need to be perfect by any means, but a couple of letters were noticeably shallower than others. I ended up adding .040 to the starting surface depth and selected the letters i wanted deeper and it turned out great. Like I already mentioned, I am new to all this and anything I make is not critical. Once I get some needed experience under my belt, then I will start perfecting my work. I want to thank everyone for there help and sure did not mean to create havoc for everyone. My hat goes off to everyone...Thanks....

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by gkas »

No problem with your question. The reason the 'why' is asked is because a better solution may be possible. That is what is great about this forum. By following these threads, you learn possibilities that you didn't even know existed. I learn new techniques almost daily. With a room full of Wizards, you're bound to get multiple solutions. Some you like, some you don't. It will definitely expand your knowledge base.

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Re: un-grouping letters

Post by Leo »

blacktrain wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:39 am
WOW, I sure did open up a can of worms. I certainly did not mean to create any problems for anyone. First of all I am a newbie to the cnc world, and I have so much to learn, and I am a slow learner. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. I realize it is important to have a flat board to begin with. I run into a situation where my board was not perfectly flat and I wanted to make a couple of letters deeper, but not all of them. Even though by doing this, I know all the letters will be at different depths, I realize this but for what I was doing it wasn't a big deal because I was just making a welcome sign for myself, and it doesn't need to be perfect by any means, but a couple of letters were noticeably shallower than others. I ended up adding .040 to the starting surface depth and selected the letters i wanted deeper and it turned out great. Like I already mentioned, I am new to all this and anything I make is not critical. Once I get some needed experience under my belt, then I will start perfecting my work. I want to thank everyone for there help and sure did not mean to create havoc for everyone. My hat goes off to everyone...Thanks....
Blacktrain - no apology needed. You did not cause anything.

My point was to try to help you to solve the problem you were having. What happens is a LOT of speculating and guessing goes on. That is why it is important to get engaged. Without direct input from you, the crowd can only guess at what is going on. That is when things go in all sorts of directions.

I just wanted YOU to be thinking about how isolating text would help in your quest. Then I wanted YOU to dialog back and forth a little, then we could make suggestions for you to help solve the issue.

Being new at CNC is not a problem. Good for you and congrats. It is a really enjoyable thing to do. I do hope you are NOT offended by any banter here among friends. There is nobody here cutting throats. This group sometimes meets face to face and is a very friendly group.

Me personally - I focus to a fault on details sometimes and sometimes am not very diplomatic. That does not mean I am mean. I like to think of myself as helpful and friendly, but sometimes misunderstood.

So, stick with us.
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