First 3D Project - Noob Problems
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 am
- Model of CNC Machine: BZT PFK 1607 PX
First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Hello Forum!
So far, I have only been machining in "2D", but now I am ready to embark on my first 3D project: a table top with knife-edge-edges.
Unfortunately, I quickly ran into a problem after importing my (fairly simple, regular and symmetric) 3D model. I am using SketchUp, and have imported the model as DXF and SKP file with the same (bad) result. The problem is that the edges look ugly, irregular, and fuzzy. Although the model is perfectly symmetrical, both table corners appear different in Vcarve.
What is causing this issue? As Sketchup is a mesh modeler, there are no real curves, only lines. Would increasing the resolution of the model in Sketchup solve the problem with the fuzzy edges?
I assume Vcarve is converting every 3D model into a "grayscale bitmap"? I assume that is what I am seeing after importing the model. So, there is no import method, that preserves clean, precise geometry?
So far, I have only been machining in "2D", but now I am ready to embark on my first 3D project: a table top with knife-edge-edges.
Unfortunately, I quickly ran into a problem after importing my (fairly simple, regular and symmetric) 3D model. I am using SketchUp, and have imported the model as DXF and SKP file with the same (bad) result. The problem is that the edges look ugly, irregular, and fuzzy. Although the model is perfectly symmetrical, both table corners appear different in Vcarve.
What is causing this issue? As Sketchup is a mesh modeler, there are no real curves, only lines. Would increasing the resolution of the model in Sketchup solve the problem with the fuzzy edges?
I assume Vcarve is converting every 3D model into a "grayscale bitmap"? I assume that is what I am seeing after importing the model. So, there is no import method, that preserves clean, precise geometry?
- martin54
- Vectric Archimage
- Posts: 7339
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:12 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Gerber 48, Triac PC, Isel fixed gantry
- Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
The import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 am
- Model of CNC Machine: BZT PFK 1607 PX
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Yes, right, thanks for the recommendation! I managed to set up the project after watching some "chamfer tutorials", but I'm a bit disappointed because I had hoped to do it in "3D"
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 am
- Model of CNC Machine: BZT PFK 1607 PX
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Ahh yes, the modelling resolution, I didn't think about that. I am using " very high" (maximum of my Vcarve maker space edition) But after watching a few tutorials on resolution, I am now aware that the Aspire version allows for resolutions of "extremely high" and "maximum".martin54 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 amThe import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths
32h + in my case. I'll stick to the moulding or chamfer.
- martin54
- Vectric Archimage
- Posts: 7339
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:12 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Gerber 48, Triac PC, Isel fixed gantry
- Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Vcarve has the same modeling resolutions as Aspire, to access the other 2 modeling resolutions you need to hold down shift when selecting create a new project, once done you will see the 2 higher resolutions in the listhalodri wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:10 pmAhh yes, the modelling resolution, I didn't think about that. I am using " very high" (maximum of my Vcarve maker space edition) But after watching a few tutorials on resolution, I am now aware that the Aspire version allows for resolutions of "extremely high" and "maximum".martin54 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 amThe import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths
32h + in my case. I'll stick to the moulding or chamfer.
Make your workpiece size as close to the table size as possible when setting up the job to maximise the pixels
- Tex_Lawrence
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 931
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:30 am
- Model of CNC Machine: Shapeoko3XXL; JTech7W; V-CarvePro 11.554
- Location: Dayton, Texas (Don't Mess With My Texas!)
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
I must have been absent when I read that at Vectric! Thanks, Martin!
Tex — Crooked Wood Products
Now there's a man with an open mind – you can feel the breeze from here.
Now there's a man with an open mind – you can feel the breeze from here.
- SteveNelson46
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 2282
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:43 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Camaster Stinger 1
- Location: Tucson, Az.
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
I did this in about 5 minutes using the Moulding and profile toolpaths..I'd be happy to can upload the .crv file if you want it.
Steve
- dealguy11
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 2462
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:52 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Anderson Selexx 510
- Location: Henryville, PA
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Just be aware that after you increase the modeling resolution, you have to re-import the model to take advantage of it. The one you already imported will not get better if you just copy it into a higher resolution project. Also, if you choose to do this as a 2d project (I would) then the higher modeling resolution won't help anything, so just leave it as standard resolution.
Steve Godding
Not all who wander (or wonder) are lost
Not all who wander (or wonder) are lost
- adze_cnc
- Vectric Wizard
- Posts: 4324
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:08 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: AXYZ 4008
- Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
My supposition is that you are using the 3D finish on the flat area. If you treat this as a combined 2D / 3D piece the time difference between 3D only toolpaths and 2D only toolpaths will be significantly lessened.
If you need to mill the flat surface do so as a pocket toolpath. The only really 3D part of your model is the fillet at the top and the chamfer below that. If you make a 3D finishing path with “selected vectors” and specfiy two vectors (the start of the fillet and the bottom of the chamfer) you can reduce the time needed vastly.
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 am
- Model of CNC Machine: BZT PFK 1607 PX
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Thank you, Steve. That's very nice of you, but I've decided to pick a smaller 3D project first.SteveNelson46 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:28 pmI did this in about 5 minutes using the Moulding and profile toolpaths..I'd be happy to can upload the .crv file if you want it.
Okay, thanks. I didn't know that. That's good advice.dealguy11 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:34 pmJust be aware that after you increase the modeling resolution, you have to re-import the model to take advantage of it. The one you already imported will not get better if you just copy it into a higher resolution project. Also, if you choose to do this as a 2d project (I would) then the higher modeling resolution won't help anything, so just leave it as standard resolution.
Hi Steven,
okay, makes sense. By playing around on the weekend I have learned "3D" takes much longer and should only be used if no better alternative - moulding or chamfer toolpath can be used.
I'm currently watching tutorials, trying to learn how to deal with 3D and combine 3D and 2D, which is a whole new can of worms. I was hoping this will be quick and easy but no.
- FabLab Wageningen
- Vectric Craftsman
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 8:17 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: Ooznest Workbee 1500x1500
- Location: Wageningen, Netherlands
- Contact:
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
If you want to continue using SketchUp (here at my makerspace I get hit for not using Blender) you may want to consider exporting as .STL. That works a lot better on average. All you need for that is a third party plug-in you can download.
Marcel.
Marcel.
- Adrian
- Vectric Archimage
- Posts: 14544
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
- Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48
- Location: Surrey, UK
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
The other thing to be aware of when importing any 3D model be it directly from an SKP file or an STL file is the relationship between the model size and the material size.
If you define the material as 8' x 4' and then import a model that is 10" x 6" the vast majority of the pixels available are wasted in blank space.
Another thing to watch out for purely with Sketchup is the number of segments used in curves. You can get a very faceted look if the number of segments is too low.
If you define the material as 8' x 4' and then import a model that is 10" x 6" the vast majority of the pixels available are wasted in blank space.
Another thing to watch out for purely with Sketchup is the number of segments used in curves. You can get a very faceted look if the number of segments is too low.
-
- Vectric Apprentice
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 am
- Model of CNC Machine: BZT PFK 1607 PX
Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems
Yes, I'd like to do as much work as possible outide of Vcarve. Ok, so STL is "the best" 3D export file format to work with Vcarve ? So far I have been using OBJ and STL.
I am now trying to combine 3D and 2D. When I create layers in Sketchup and export as DXF the layers are preserved in Vcarve which is great. However when I export as STL or OBJ, layers don't show up in Vcarve. I have figured, that I can import them into Vcarve via import vector and then pick a DXF file.
However the imported vectors and my 3D geometry are not aligned after importing them, soI have to manually align them and that works ok with the Varve alignment tools.
Is it possible to import a 3D file with multiple layers into Vcarve, and have 2D linework/vectors placed on these layers with everything already aligned from the get go?
I am now trying to combine 3D and 2D. When I create layers in Sketchup and export as DXF the layers are preserved in Vcarve which is great. However when I export as STL or OBJ, layers don't show up in Vcarve. I have figured, that I can import them into Vcarve via import vector and then pick a DXF file.
However the imported vectors and my 3D geometry are not aligned after importing them, soI have to manually align them and that works ok with the Varve alignment tools.
Is it possible to import a 3D file with multiple layers into Vcarve, and have 2D linework/vectors placed on these layers with everything already aligned from the get go?
Hi Marcel, I have considered using Blender because it's free and open source, but becoming proficient in any CAD software takes a lot of time. Since I have been using SketchUp for the past 10 years, for better or worse, it remains my preferred choice. However, I don't rule out starting with Blender in the future, unfortunately the development of Sketchup doesn't seem to be on a good track.FabLab Wageningen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:10 am...here at my makerspace I get hit for not using Blender