First 3D Project - Noob Problems

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halodri
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First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

Hello Forum!

So far, I have only been machining in "2D", but now I am ready to embark on my first 3D project: a table top with knife-edge-edges.
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Unfortunately, I quickly ran into a problem after importing my (fairly simple, regular and symmetric) 3D model. I am using SketchUp, and have imported the model as DXF and SKP file with the same (bad) result. The problem is that the edges look ugly, irregular, and fuzzy. Although the model is perfectly symmetrical, both table corners appear different in Vcarve.

What is causing this issue? As Sketchup is a mesh modeler, there are no real curves, only lines. Would increasing the resolution of the model in Sketchup solve the problem with the fuzzy edges?

I assume Vcarve is converting every 3D model into a "grayscale bitmap"? I assume that is what I am seeing after importing the model. So, there is no import method, that preserves clean, precise geometry?
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adze_cnc
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by adze_cnc »

halodri wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:57 am
So far, I have only been machining in "2D", but now I am ready to embark on my first 3D project: a table top with knife-edge-edges.
If you use the moulding toolpath (or moulding + chamfer) you’ll still have a 2D project.

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by martin54 »

The import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:

halodri
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

adze_cnc wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:08 am

If you use the moulding toolpath (or moulding + chamfer) you’ll still have a 2D project.
Yes, right, thanks for the recommendation! I managed to set up the project after watching some "chamfer tutorials", but I'm a bit disappointed because I had hoped to do it in "3D" :lol:

halodri
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am
The import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:
Ahh yes, the modelling resolution, I didn't think about that. I am using " very high" (maximum of my Vcarve maker space edition) But after watching a few tutorials on resolution, I am now aware that the Aspire version allows for resolutions of "extremely high" and "maximum".
martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:
32h + in my case. :shock: I'll stick to the moulding or chamfer.

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by martin54 »

halodri wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:10 pm
martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am
The import will depend not only on the modelling resolution you export at but also the modelling resolution you use in vcarve when you set up the project, a tabletop is quite a large piece so you may have to look at using either the 20x or 50x resolution when starting your project.
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:
Ahh yes, the modelling resolution, I didn't think about that. I am using " very high" (maximum of my Vcarve maker space edition) But after watching a few tutorials on resolution, I am now aware that the Aspire version allows for resolutions of "extremely high" and "maximum".
martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:
32h + in my case. :shock: I'll stick to the moulding or chamfer.
Vcarve has the same modeling resolutions as Aspire, to access the other 2 modeling resolutions you need to hold down shift when selecting create a new project, once done you will see the 2 higher resolutions in the list :lol: :lol:
Make your workpiece size as close to the table size as possible when setting up the job to maximise the pixels :lol: :lol:

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:17 pm
... Vcarve has the same modeling resolutions as Aspire, to access the other 2 modeling resolutions you need to hold down shift when selecting create a new project, once done you will see the 2 higher resolutions in the list :lol: :lol:
I must have been absent when I read that at Vectric! :lol: Thanks, Martin!
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halodri
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am

...you need to hold down shift when selecting create a new project
Oh, wow, yes indeed. Thanks!

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by SteveNelson46 »

I did this in about 5 minutes using the Moulding and profile toolpaths..I'd be happy to can upload the .crv file if you want it.
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by dealguy11 »

Just be aware that after you increase the modeling resolution, you have to re-import the model to take advantage of it. The one you already imported will not get better if you just copy it into a higher resolution project. Also, if you choose to do this as a 2d project (I would) then the higher modeling resolution won't help anything, so just leave it as standard resolution.
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by adze_cnc »

halodri wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:10 pm
martin54 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:34 am
As has been said this could be done without the need for 3D toolpaths which are going to take a lot of machining time compared to 2D toolpaths :lol: :lol:
32h + in my case. :shock: I'll stick to the moulding or chamfer.
My supposition is that you are using the 3D finish on the flat area. If you treat this as a combined 2D / 3D piece the time difference between 3D only toolpaths and 2D only toolpaths will be significantly lessened.

If you need to mill the flat surface do so as a pocket toolpath. The only really 3D part of your model is the fillet at the top and the chamfer below that. If you make a 3D finishing path with “selected vectors” and specfiy two vectors (the start of the fillet and the bottom of the chamfer) you can reduce the time needed vastly.

halodri
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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

SteveNelson46 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:28 pm
I did this in about 5 minutes using the Moulding and profile toolpaths..I'd be happy to can upload the .crv file if you want it.
Thank you, Steve. That's very nice of you, but I've decided to pick a smaller 3D project first.
dealguy11 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:34 pm
Just be aware that after you increase the modeling resolution, you have to re-import the model to take advantage of it. The one you already imported will not get better if you just copy it into a higher resolution project. Also, if you choose to do this as a 2d project (I would) then the higher modeling resolution won't help anything, so just leave it as standard resolution.
Okay, thanks. I didn't know that. That's good advice.
adze_cnc wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:53 pm

..if you treat this as a combined 2D / 3D piece the time difference between 3D only toolpaths and 2D only toolpaths will be significantly lessened.
Hi Steven,
okay, makes sense. By playing around on the weekend I have learned "3D" takes much longer and should only be used if no better alternative - moulding or chamfer toolpath can be used.

I'm currently watching tutorials, trying to learn how to deal with 3D and combine 3D and 2D, which is a whole new can of worms. :roll: I was hoping this will be quick and easy but no. :lol:

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by FabLab Wageningen »

If you want to continue using SketchUp (here at my makerspace I get hit for not using Blender) you may want to consider exporting as .STL. That works a lot better on average. All you need for that is a third party plug-in you can download.

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by Adrian »

The other thing to be aware of when importing any 3D model be it directly from an SKP file or an STL file is the relationship between the model size and the material size.

If you define the material as 8' x 4' and then import a model that is 10" x 6" the vast majority of the pixels available are wasted in blank space.

Another thing to watch out for purely with Sketchup is the number of segments used in curves. You can get a very faceted look if the number of segments is too low.

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Re: First 3D Project - Noob Problems

Post by halodri »

Yes, I'd like to do as much work as possible outide of Vcarve. Ok, so STL is "the best" 3D export file format to work with Vcarve ? So far I have been using OBJ and STL.

I am now trying to combine 3D and 2D. When I create layers in Sketchup and export as DXF the layers are preserved in Vcarve which is great. However when I export as STL or OBJ, layers don't show up in Vcarve. I have figured, that I can import them into Vcarve via import vector and then pick a DXF file.

However the imported vectors and my 3D geometry are not aligned after importing them, soI have to manually align them and that works ok with the Varve alignment tools.

Is it possible to import a 3D file with multiple layers into Vcarve, and have 2D linework/vectors placed on these layers with everything already aligned from the get go?
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FabLab Wageningen wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:10 am
...here at my makerspace I get hit for not using Blender
Hi Marcel, I have considered using Blender because it's free and open source, but becoming proficient in any CAD software takes a lot of time. Since I have been using SketchUp for the past 10 years, for better or worse, it remains my preferred choice. However, I don't rule out starting with Blender in the future, unfortunately the development of Sketchup doesn't seem to be on a good track.

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