Noob graphics question

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Max340
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Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

I worked in the printing industry for a while, so I have some experience dealing with graphics files, but CNC routing is a bit different.
I know and have used the BMP import tool, and I have traced the bitmaps and had success doing this. However, When importing and tracing, it creates an image best suited (it seems) to V-carving, rather than profile routing. If I import a line drawing, I'd rather profile cut the drawing itself.

How is the best way to make a line drawing into vectors, if that's even a process?

Can I trace a line drawing and profile cut it with good results?

What programs/apps are easily used/acquired to feed Vcarve the files it likes to use?

I see the button to "import vectors" but I'm not sure how to manipulate the image once I've pulled it in to Vcarve.

I'm sure there may be stuff in the help files or on here, but I'm not even sure what to call what I'm attempting to do, let alone if its even possible. Thus my questions here.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by sharkcutup »

Check out the Tutorials on the Vectric website and there are many videos on YouTube also.

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AboveCreations
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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by AboveCreations »

Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
I worked in the printing industry for a while, so I have some experience dealing with graphics files, but CNC routing is a bit different.
I know and have used the BMP import tool, and I have traced the bitmaps and had success doing this. However, When importing and tracing, it creates an image best suited (it seems) to V-carving, rather than profile routing. If I import a line drawing, I'd rather profile cut the drawing itself.

How is the best way to make a line drawing into vectors, if that's even a process?

Can I trace a line drawing and profile cut it with good results?

What programs/apps are easily used/acquired to feed Vcarve the files it likes to use?

I see the button to "import vectors" but I'm not sure how to manipulate the image once I've pulled it in to Vcarve.

I'm sure there may be stuff in the help files or on here, but I'm not even sure what to call what I'm attempting to do, let alone if its even possible. Thus my questions here.
I am not quite following what you are asking. Importing graphic files is pretty straight forward, but as Shark stated, you may want to check out the tutorials on that subject. If you still have specific questions, then try to be a bit more specific on what you are trying to achieve. What do you mean "best way to make a line drawing into vectors"? When you import a bitmap and convert it, it IS now vectors.

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adze_cnc
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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by adze_cnc »

But when it is a bitmap it very well may be a "line drawing" or to put it another way—a drawing of lines.
Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
How is the best way to make a line drawing into vectors, if that's even a process?
That's the thing. We think of lines that we draw as having no thickness (thank you mathematics) but a tracing program sees a drawn line on a bitmap as having "two sides" as it were. Thus you get results, as you mentioned, that look more suited to a V-Carve/Engraving Toolpath.
Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
Can I trace a line drawing and profile cut it with good results?
Directly, without editing, probably not. With editing to remove that dimensionality mentioned above, most certainly. Although for some images it's easier just to trace over the image and make your own vectors.

This "Tips and Tricks with Beki" video shows manually drawing vectors over an image: https://youtu.be/Nmn7RebbtRI

This "In the labs with Beki" video shows tracing a bitmap to make a block for relief printing: https://youtu.be/IVaYIgbXTZ0
Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
What programs/apps are easily used/acquired to feed Vcarve the files it likes to use?
If you are thinking of learning another piece of software to create vectors to feed into VCarve then save yourself the trouble and just learn VCarve's drawing tools. (People often think of VCarve as a "CAD" or Computer Aided Drafting program but really it's more akin to a drawing program such as CorelDraw or Adobe Illustrator.)

If you already use Illustrator then you're set as VCarve will directly import Illustrator AI files just fine (although it does throw away the layer information—grrrrrr....).
Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
I see the button to "import vectors" but I'm not sure how to manipulate the image once I've pulled it in to Vcarve.
That's where the tutorials here: https://www.vectric.com/support/tutorials/vcarve-pro? or via selecting the "Tutorial Browser" item in the help menu are so valuable.

Various additional "Tips and Tricks" and "In the labs with..." videos can be found at Vectric's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqkhkx ... y8ybykTlzQ
Max340 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:08 pm
Thus my questions here.
Your questions are fine and I do follow what you're asking. Thank you for separating them out into "bullet points". So many people just glom them altogether into one giant impenetrable paragraph.

I hope this has been of help.

Steven

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

Steven,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay, been running nuts with a sudden surge of stuff to do before the holiday.

The "two sides" issue sometimes works well. The biggest issue for me is that too often, the line drawings have low resolution, and those the Vcarve looks like a record groove rather than a clean cut. I guess I was just looking for a better or quicker way to correct this than using the drawing tools to create a profile path.

My thought in regard to other programs was that perhaps the line drawings could be converted to something other than a BMP and this avoid the tracing stage that creates the two sides.

Your answers definitely helped. And I'm finding that I'm doing things the right way, just that they can be time consuming. I'll have to set aside time to look at the tutorials. Having direct links to the topics I'm looking for is a great help since I'm not sure of the correct terminology, which aids immensely when using search terms.

Many thanks,

Scott

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adze_cnc
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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by adze_cnc »

Max340 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:50 am
The biggest issue for me is that too often, the line drawings have low resolution
How are they being obtained?

I once watched a video on tracing using VCave and the fellow making the video did a search for his image using http://images.google.com . He found one that was reported to be quite large (x thousand by y thousand pixels). Problem was instead of going to the linked site he just dragged-and-dropped the image from the Google result screen. Problems was that image was a small hundred by a small hundred pixels in size.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Adrian »

Once you get the hang of it there really is no better or quicker way within VCarve to produce a quality image from a bitmap than manually tracing with the vector tools.

If you have to have a single line and you want to do it as automatically as possible then you need use a centreline trace program as that is something VCarve can't do.

You'll still need a high quality image (ideally non-compressed) for that option though. The old computer saying "garbage in, garbage out" is never truer when it comes to the conversion of images from one format to another.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by sharkcutup »

by Adrian --- Once you get the hang of it there really is no better or quicker way within VCarve to produce a quality image from a bitmap than manually tracing with the vector tools.

If you have to have a single line and you want to do it as automatically as possible then you need use a centreline trace program as that is something VCarve can't do.

You'll still need a high quality image (ideally non-compressed) for that option though. The old computer saying "garbage in, garbage out" is never truer when it comes to the conversion of images from one format to another.
+1 Agreed to all of the noted above

There are some online tools that can help with image conversions to line art or just simple image compression/pixelation conversions.
Here are a couple of links I use from time to time:
https://online.rapidresizer.com/photogr ... d070bc8ad7
http://www.imageoptimizer.net/Pages/Home.aspx

I am sure that if you search hard enough online you can find most any tool to help with your design creations. It is just a matter of spending some time searching.

But in my own opinion I have found that vector tracing within V-Carve using the tools available has been the best for me, of course that takes time but in the end it is always time well spent. Besides by tracing images in this fashion I have found and learned some interesting techniques that I can use over and over again that help to simplify the process.

Just my opinions/thoughts!!!

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by martin54 »

If you have a background in printing then you already know that low res images are a problem :lol: :lol: It is the same sort of thing with bitmap tracing, try & find high quality bitmaps, BMP & tiff are better (as they are with printing) if you can find them as they retain a lot of the colour info that jpegs delete (for file compression) which helps the bitmap trace tool. Try & use the tools within the browser when searching, black & white line art will convert better than something with lots of colours.
Single line trace tools have their place but don't always give the results you are expecting & don't work the way your mind sees things not something I have used but I believe inkscape has a single line plug in tool you can download.
Really as others have said the best way is to learn to use the vector drawing tools within the software, problem with this is it takes time (& effort) to learn. It's easy for me to say as I have been doing it far a long time working as a signmaker working with cad cut vinyl & large format print :lol: :lol:

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

I go to the source site, not the google thumbnail. Knowing that resolution can make or break a printed image, I've tried to treat CNC routing the same. Sometimes its just a bad, but large (area) image.
adze_cnc wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:45 am
Max340 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:50 am
The biggest issue for me is that too often, the line drawings have low resolution
How are they being obtained?

I once watched a video on tracing using VCave and the fellow making the video did a search for his image using http://images.google.com . He found one that was reported to be quite large (x thousand by y thousand pixels). Problem was instead of going to the linked site he just dragged-and-dropped the image from the Google result screen. Problems was that image was a small hundred by a small hundred pixels in size.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

Adrian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:17 am
Once you get the hang of it there really is no better or quicker way within VCarve to produce a quality image from a bitmap than manually tracing with the vector tools.
I'm getting pretty good at this method, but obviously a BMP trace is faster. I was just hoping maybe I was missing something thta made it easier and got different results than the BMP trace.
Adrian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:17 am
If you have to have a single line and you want to do it as automatically as possible then you need use a centreline trace program as that is something VCarve can't do.
Which might work, except Vcarve would still only do a trace. I'm guessing I have to better understand the "import vector" function.
Adrian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:17 am
You'll still need a high quality image (ideally non-compressed) for that option though. The old computer saying "garbage in, garbage out" is never truer when it comes to the conversion of images from one format to another.
Completely agree

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Adrian »

Max340 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:38 pm
[
Adrian wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:17 am
If you have to have a single line and you want to do it as automatically as possible then you need use a centreline trace program as that is something VCarve can't do.
Which might work, except Vcarve would still only do a trace. I'm guessing I have to better understand the "import vector" function.
The centreline trace program will create vectors not a bitmap and you then import that vector into VCarve. No tracing required in VCarve.

Ideally you should always try to start with vectors not bitmaps. Quite often there are existing vectors of artwork already. Many times a customer has supplied me a bitmap and when I've explained what a vector file is it turns out they have vector files for the design already.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

Adrian wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:43 pm

The centreline trace program will create vectors not a bitmap and you then import that vector into VCarve. No tracing required in VCarve.

Ideally you should always try to start with vectors not bitmaps. Quite often there are existing vectors of artwork already. Many times a customer has supplied me a bitmap and when I've explained what a vector file is it turns out they have vector files for the design already.
Agreed, and that's why my initial question regarding importing vectors. I can import a file, but I haven't yet figured out how to move from that step.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Adrian »

Max340 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:46 pm

Agreed, and that's why my initial question regarding importing vectors. I can import a file, but I haven't yet figured out how to move from that step.

Not sure what mean by "manipulating the image". That implies a bitmap rather than a set of vectors. If you want to change the imported vectors then you use the drawing tools to change whatever you want and then toolpath.

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Re: Noob graphics question

Post by Max340 »

Adrian wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:53 pm

Not sure what mean by "manipulating the image". That implies a bitmap rather than a set of vectors. If you want to change the imported vectors then you use the drawing tools to change whatever you want and then toolpath.
My thought was that if I imported vectors, I could avoid the tracing step and use the image as it was imported. Again, I'm not sure exactly what the process is called, or what the next step after importing the file would be. It makes it sound as if a line drawing in an acceptable graphics format (such as svg, etc) could be imported and I would work from there. But I haven't been able to do that as yet. A couple of posts indicated the exact tutorial to look at, and that's where I'm headed next in this learning curve, lol

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