Low quality v-carve

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SameAs
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Low quality v-carve

Post by SameAs »

I’m cutting with a white side 1502 90 degree 1/2” v-bit at 18000rpm, 80ipm feed, pass depth 0.125”, max cut depth is 0.314”, into southern pine.

Hope this photo attaches correct. First time posting,
I don’t see it in preview while making post.

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by scottp55 »

Welcome!!
Depending on moisture SYP varies wildy....hoping you can give more info for people who cut it!
Only thing I get up here is KD dimensioned...and because of chems I avoid it.
Try not to machine it if treated..wicked reaction here:(
DO NOT get much untreated here:(
"Flatness is King"
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SameAs
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by SameAs »

Zoom where trunk goes cross grain
Zoom where trunk goes cross grain
Surely can get a better cut than this, I have not studied feed and speed much at all

SameAs
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by SameAs »

Thanks scottp55, it may be just a case of hopeless carving material, just wondering if my tool cutting parameters are wildly wrong.

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by Leo »

There is a lot to consider,

One prominent thing is - softwoods tend to have the fuzzies more than hardwood.

Are you v-grooving the ENTIRE medallion, or just the tree.

Hard Maple may be a better choice of materials.
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TReischl
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by TReischl »

SameAs wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:49 pm
Thanks scottp55, it may be just a case of hopeless carving material, just wondering if my tool cutting parameters are wildly wrong.
Or not.

I avoid cutting any pine with carbide tools. The "experts" can bloviate all they want on the internet about carbide tools that are as sharp as HSS. Ok, if they say so. In my humble experience I have found that the cheapest HSS bits cut better than high quality carbide bits. At least the ones available to mere mortals without access to an industrial budget. Here is the problem though, I have yet to find any V groove bits that are not carbide.

So what to do? Well, if I must v carve pine for whatever reason I make the first pass. Leave the piece on the machine and give it a coat of shellac sanding sealer. Not full bore shellac, thin shellac. Let it really dry. It feels dry after about 10 minutes, I let it sit for about an hour. Then I cut it again. The second cut can be done full depth usually because all the material is gone, so not so bad. Then I get out the Chinese tooth brushes (Chinese because they still make hard bristle brushes) and give it a brushing.

Just some random information that I have stumbled across over the years that might be of interest and make you feel better:

When sharpening things like chisels and carving tools the big test of sharpness is to cut end grain pine. Why? Because if the tool is not deadly sharp it will crush the end grain instead of slicing it.

Notice they do not sell carbide tipped hand carving tools? (well, they do, over at Wally Mart, but they have the same plow geometry as the carbide ones). Gee, I wonder why? Heck, they should stay sharp much, much longer. Could it be that they cannot be sharpened as sharp as HSS in the first place? Same thing is true of plane blades. It is really easy to feel a dull tool when working by hand.

The geometry of V carve tools is lousy. They plow more than slice. Imagine trying to carve something by hand with that edge geometry. It is more of a scraper than a cutter.

One other thing, HSS is used a lot to cut aluminum, so obviously it does not get dull immediately. Wood is abrasive so I do not know which one dulls the tool faster.

If you are going to be doing a lot of pine stuff (which btw I do) then I suggest you give the el cheapo HSS a shot.

OK, I am finished with my HSS venting for the day, LOL.
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SameAs
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by SameAs »

Thanks TReischl - all good info!
I’m going to redo this one with slower feed and the carve-shellac-carve technique.
Leo - just the tree is vcarve. I want to get some hard maple I bet it carves beautiful!

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by Bob Reda »

What I like to do with any v carve is cheat the zero down -.01 and re run the file. It will clear many of the fuzzies away

Bob

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by mtylerfl »

Bob Reda wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:12 am
What I like to do with any v carve is cheat the zero down -.01 and re run the file. It will clear many of the fuzzies away

Bob
Hi Bob,

I’ve seen the advice of carving slightly deeper on the second run, mentioned before.

You actually don’t need to do that. Just run the same VCarve Toolpath twice. Going deeper than the first run can potentially create “new” fuzzies. Keeping the same depth setting for the second cleanup run works fine for clearing out any fuzzies left behind from the first run. Try it on your next VCarve and I think you’ll agree. :D

BTW, I religiously run VCarve Toolpaths twice (I just create a duplicate copy.) I MAY set a slight start depth (same for both) if I anticipate final sanding might “erase” fine carved details. The start depth is an allowance for that.
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by Rcnewcomb »

I’m going to redo this one with slower feed and the carve-shellac-carve technique.
That should help.

Ultimately you will need to decide if your process would be better with different material.
  • For a natural wood appearance hard maple cuts clean and holds fine details
  • If you are painting then a high quality MDF like Medex performs very well
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by martin54 »

Couple of other points that haven't been mentioned yet, don't assume your v-bit is sharp & the correct angle just because it is new & from a known manufacturer :lol: :lol:
The quality of the vectors you are using can make a big difference, if your vector artwork was generated from an auto trace then there is often a degree of clean up (node editing) required. How much will generally depend on the quality of the bitmap that is being traced :lol: :lol:

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by redwood »

I don't use pine, but I use almost exclusively redwood, another soft wood. I follow Michaels caveat of just running the V-Carve tool path twice at the same depth. I also use the brush between cuts. There is a definite improvement in cut quality after the second cut.
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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by sharkcutup »

Written by Michael:
Hi Bob,

I’ve seen the advice of carving slightly deeper on the second run, mentioned before.

You actually don’t need to do that. Just run the same VCarve Toolpath twice. Going deeper than the first run can potentially create “new” fuzzies. Keeping the same depth setting for the second cleanup run works fine for clearing out any fuzzies left behind from the first run. Try it on your next VCarve and I think you’ll agree. :D

BTW, I religiously run VCarve Toolpaths twice (I just create a duplicate copy.) I MAY set a slight start depth (same for both) if I anticipate final sanding might “erase” fine carved details. The start depth is an allowance for that.
+1 on the V-Carve second (duplicate) pass --- has been working great for me!

I use pine 80% of the time. Majority is Premium Pine but every now and then I will use the knotty stuff and just avoid the knots.The knotty pine is mainly used for prototype projects such as feed and speed testing/adjustments for box joint fit-ups, etc.... The Premium Pine in my own experience has carved well. It does help to achieve an optimum FEED/SPEED Ratio though. I also clean all my bits, saw blades, etc... with a specifically made chemical solution during my monthly shop maintenance program. Not sure if it makes any difference but it surely cannot hurt!

Have not tried the Shellac technique --- maybe one day I'll give it a try :roll:

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by SameAs »

The reality of it is “ALL YOUR VCARVE ARE CREATE TO FUZZIE”. Soft wood fibers want to bend first rather than shear when hit with a cutting edge.
So everyone has some techniques to minimize this effect, with consensus on twice-carve.
I carved this tree trunk on the back side of the same pine piece, so I could hit the same grain.
0F4FAA1C-5EE4-4BAA-B8E6-405E0EC14AE4.jpeg
It seems to me, the slow feed rate (20 ips) eliminated most fuzz, (in this case) but still has that bludgeoned look in spots.
I filled in with shellac, dried for an hour and reran the same toolpath.
Second carve after shellac
Second carve after shellac
A slight improvement; for me it’s acceptable in this poor quality pine, so should be just fine in a better species.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your solutions, reading this forum has spared me from many frustrating rookie mistakes; I’ve actually made some stuff that’s ‘not bad’ for a beginner...
I will keep in mind also sharp measured tools and good quality vectors when striving for a ‘pro’ look.

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Re: Low quality v-carve

Post by sharkcutup »

Looking good there SameAs!!!

Here are two projects I have recently carved in knotty pine and premium pine
Optimized-Phone Speaker Box.jpg
Optimized-Graduation Plaque.jpg
Phone Speaker Box - Carved from Box Store Common Board Pine (Stand was carved in 1/4" Birch Plywood)
Graduation Plaque - Carved from Box Store Premium/Select Pine

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