Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

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Tex_Lawrence
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Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

I've imported Amana's tool database. One of the bits I've purchased is an Amana #46577-K, which I've selected to create a 1/2" deep pocket in my wood part. The bit is 1/4", flat, 2 flutes, tapered 1 degree, 1/4" pass and has a 1-1/2" DOC. The tool database entry shows the tip radius as 0 degrees. I thought of changing that to a very small number that isn't zero, but that only increased the calculation time to infinity (and beyond!)

Every other bit I select will simulate this pocket, but not the 46577. I don't see anything I can change to force it to simulate.

During the simulation it is slow, but progresses fine. The simulation just shows some scratch marks but never pockets even one path.

Change bits, and it simulates and cuts fine.

I'm stumped.

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TReischl
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by TReischl »

Yea, I am stumped too because you did not show us what you are trying to cut. You did not show us your settings for the cut either.

Makes it difficult for anyone to help you unless they enjoy guessing games.

Your title indicates a tapered ball nose but your description does not show that.

Since it is apparent it is NOT a tapered ball nose maybe that is where your issue lies? You said a flat. If you tell a computer something is ZERO then you are going to have problems. How does it cut anything with a ZERO tip radius?

"Amana Tool 46577-K CNC Spektra Extreme Tool Life Coated Spiral 2D/3D Carving 0.10 Deg Straight Angle Flat Bottom x 1/4 D x 1-1/2 CH x 1/4 SHK x 3 Inch Long x 2 Flute SC Up-Cut Router Bit"

That is .1 degree NOT 1 degree. You should just enter that as a straight end mill.

At full depth of cut that taper amounts to about .0025 of an inch. Trust me, your shapeoko slops around more than that on a good day, so does my machine.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones

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Tex_Lawrence
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

Well, excuse me.

I appreciate that 1 degree is technically tapered, but this is what was presented by Amana.

Ok, thanks. I'll go to Amana and get their database corrected.

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by TReischl »

The description I listed above was straight from the Amana website.

If their database says it is different then you need to resolve that with Amana.

More importantly, you should NOT be entering it as a tapered ball nose. That is because it is not a ball nose.

The issue of it not showing you the simulation is because you have told the software that it is a ZERO diameter/radius bit. Zero bits cut nothing because they are ZERO. If you enter a straight bit and tell the software it is zero diameter you will get the same result or maybe an error. So, the moral of this story is: there are no bits that cut with a zero diameter.
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by adze_cnc »

This bit on Amana’s site does not have a 1 degree taper (as compared to 1 degree ball bits I have). If they are adamant that this has a 0.10 degree taper then you have two choices:
  1. enter the bit as a 1/4” straight bit because the taper is so negligible as TReischl has pointed out
  2. enter the bit as an “engraving” bit with a side angle (a) of 0.10 degrees and a flat diameter (f) of 1/4"
I happily lie to the software about bits (dovetail, key slot, etc.) regularly but am not surprised when the simulation doesn’t match reality.

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by woody53 »

No, Tex. I don't excuse you. You asked for help and got it, and then act snotty ? TReischi and adze are Both very knowledgeable and don't just throw something out there . Everyone on this forum is helpful and will try their best to get you going. Hope you can learn to fit in, like everyone else.

Dave

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by TReischl »

woody53 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:54 pm
No, Tex. I don't excuse you. You asked for help and got it, and then act snotty ? TReischi and adze are Both very knowledgeable and don't just throw something out there . Everyone on this forum is helpful and will try their best to get you going. Hope you can learn to fit in, like everyone else.

Dave
Well, Woody, I dunno about that, maybe Adze. Me? Not so much. I regularly astound myself with what I do not know.

Over the years, I have learned to take the way things come across on screen with a little salt. Lord knows, I often do not come across very well since I am about as far removed from PC as a person can get. Good thing the other folks on here cut me some slack.

A challenge: If I am so darned knowledgeable could you please explain to me why I have cut the base board for a Zank inlay project twice, one of the inlays three times and the other twice? This project is turning into a permanent one. Yesterday, I finished it up, but after all the recutting I am not a happy camper so will see how many times I have to cut things on the next attempt. And yes, I have the numbers correct, but doing an inlay within another inlay presents a few interesting challenges. :::::sigh::::: this is how I learn, good thing I enjoy it !!!! 8)
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Bob Reda »

They say you learn from your mistakes. If that is the case I should be a frigging genius!!!!!

Bob

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

Geez, I go away for a few days and come back to being called "snotty" for something I wrote. If you can tell me what went wrong, then I'd be happy to correct it.
woody53 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:54 pm
No, Tex. I don't excuse you. You asked for help and got it, and then act snotty ? TReischi and adze are Both very knowledgeable and don't just throw something out there . Everyone on this forum is helpful and will try their best to get you going. Hope you can learn to fit in, like everyone else.

Dave

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by TReischl »

ryanst42 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:16 pm
buncha babies
Take it somewhere else.

No need to start with name calling. Grow up.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones

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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by dealguy11 »

Tex - trying to get back on topic, both TReishcl and Adze have given you the answer. The bit shown online is essentially a 1/4" end mill, not a ball nose. I'm not sure what the very slight taper is supposed to achieve. The tip diameter is about .2423", not zero. I don't know why the database says zero, and it's not really important. If your bit looks like the one shown online, then it doesn't have a zero radius.

Having said that, if you attempt to use this bit for a 3d carving then you are going to get a very "steppy" carving - it will not come out relatively smoothly like a ball-nose bit would. I'm not sure why anyone would use any flat-bottomed bit for 3d carving. Someone will probably chime in with something, but in my experience an actual ballnose bit with a radius, not a flat, gives the best results for 3d cutting.
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by dealguy11 »

Sorry, just re-read your original post and you're wanting to cut a pocket. This bit would be a good choice for a pocket. It will leave a very tiny taper on the side- imperceptible, really - but otherwise should cut a pocket nicely. Going forward, unless you have a need for a coated bit like this you might look into less expensive 1/4" carbide end mills without the coating. That bit is $59.78 from Toolstoday. You can get much less expensive, quality end mills in a variety of places. For example, US Router Tools sells standard 1/4" spiral upcut endmills from about $18-$23 depending on cut length.
Steve Godding
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

dealguy11 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:44 pm
US Router Tools sells standard 1/4" spiral upcut endmills from about $18-$23 depending on cut length.
Steve, thank you for your informative posts. I appreciate it!
Crooked Wood Products - Custom Wood
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Re: Tapered Ball Nose Bit not Simulating

Post by Tex_Lawrence »

I've discovered what a Tapered End Mill with a 1 degree taper is good for. It cleans up those vertical bit lines on the side of a pocket as long as you use "Last" pass on the toolpath.

Well, mostly. :D
Crooked Wood Products - Custom Wood
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