Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

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mrmfwilson
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Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

I am trying to select vectors to be cut in a certain order. I thought the Vector Selection Order tool path would do the trick. When I choose all the holes first and then the outlines, they don't stay in order. The software will do a set of holes and then the outline in that area. Am I wrongly assuming that the toolpath will keep the order that I choose? I don't have any of the other Order selections selected. File attached.
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by Adrian »

It's because you have cuts that are within another so it's doing the toolpath in order of the selection of the outside shapes and the holes within each of the shapes as it goes.

If you want to cut all the holes first and then all the shapes afterwards you would need to create two toolpaths. The holes would need to be inside cuts as the software "loses" the relationship to the outside part if you create separate toolpaths.

Out of interest why do you want to cut it that way?

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

It's actually cutting the holes first and then the outline. I want to cut them in order because it is thin material and I am using a thin tab. If I cut the outlines first the holes can be oblong because the bit can move the part around once the outline is cut. I decided to use a separate tool paths. I don't understand why it matters where the cuts happen? I would expect the path would follow the order regardless of what I am selecting. Seems like the post-processor is making decisions on its own. Thanks
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by Adrian »

You have a vector within a vector with a single toolpath. VCarve treats that as one part so it knows to cut the inside of the hole rather than the outside. That's why it's ignoring the holes in your selection order and only looking at the outside shapes. It's cuts the holes inside of the first shape in your selection, then the shape itself. Then it cuts the holes in the 2nd one selected etc.

Logically your hole vectors and outline vectors are one part. VCarve always treats vectors within vectors like that which 99.99% of the time is exactly what people want and avoids all the hassle of creating two separate toolpaths.

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

So what is the Vector Selection Order used for? If I just wanted a tool path for each part, I would select all the parts as I do most of the time. If the software as a default chooses to cut the inner vectors and then the outer vectors, then the case would be for the Vector Selection Order to not do that when you wanted to override the default behavior. Then I wouldn't have to create two tool paths.
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by Adrian »

The vector selection order is used to cut the vectors in the order selected which it does if you consider the outside and inside vectors as logically being one part.

If VCarve didn't automatically create the correct code for the inside vectors then people would need to create two toolpaths for every single job. One with the profile set to be outside and one with the profile set to be inside.

As it stands two toolpaths only need to be created for the unusual (in my opinion) requirement that you have. You can use the Merge Toolpaths facility to create one toolpath from the two you have created if needed.

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

So the vector selection order will work the same if I select each vector of a part individually or select the all the part vectors at the same time, correct? Then again, what is the purpose of the vector selection order? I don't want to change the default behavior, just the behavior when I want to choose the order myself. Do you work for Vectric? How do I ask for a software enhancement to allow the manual selection of the order I want the vectors cut? Either make the Vector Selection Order work differently, or take it out as a selection if it does not work any different than the default. Seems simple to me.
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by Adrian »

I don't know how else to explain it to you other than the way I already have. It is not the same as the default order. If you select the vectors they will cut in that order with respect to the inner vectors for each outer part.

I don't work for Vectric. Requests for updates to the software should be sent to support@vectric.com

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

Thanks for your time. I guess I'm baffled that you don't agree that the Vector Selection Order should do what it says. I have read the help and in the explanation they say that the inner vectors will be cut first. I am going to ask for the ability to really select the Vector order or to rename the selection "Part Selection Oder" as it really is.

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by TReischl »

Do you really want to cut inside holes with an outside toolpath?

I don't know anyone else on the planet who does that.

You are selecting inside cuts and outside cuts all in one go.

If you want to control it then select profile, set inside cut, select all the inside cuts and calc them.

Start a new tool path for the outside cuts.

The post will merge the two paths since they use the same tool.

And no, I would not like to see Vectric change the software, it would be a disaster.
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

Hi TReischl,
Not trying to start a war here...
I thought your reply was not very kind or helpful. I live on this planet and I have a reason for what I want. I would prefer that the forum responses be helpful and kind. Please read the original post.

From what I could understand from your comments, it doesn't appear that you understand what I want.

I want the Vector Selection Order selection under the Order tab in a Profile Path to actually follow the order of the selection that I choose. I am selecting all the circles inside of all the parts individually on the material to be cut first and then I am selecting the outlines of all the parts individually. When the simulation is run it will cut the circles inside of a part and then cut the outline of the same part and go to the next part and do the same. What I want is to cut all the holes for all the parts first on the material, then after all the holes are cut, cut the all outlines for all the parts. The way that the software normally works it that it recognizes when a vector is inside another vector and cuts the inside vectors first and then the outside vectors for each part. That is great and I don't want that to change but, it works that way even when I use the Vector Selection Order. I don't want the default behavior to change except when I choose the Vector Selection Order. Otherwise I'm not sure that there is a reason for the Vector Selection Order at all. The change I want is only for the specific choice of Vector Selection Order. I don't want it to cut the holes first and the the outline for each part. As far as I am concerned, I understand the reasoning for the default behavior but, I don't understand what the Vector Selection Order is used for if you can't manually override the default behavior of cutting each part with vectors inside another vector entirely and not following the choice of selection that I make.

Hope this make sense. I don't need any more advice.

Thanks,
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by sharkcutup »

Two toolpaths holes first then outlines MERGED or when output to save toolpath (check off "output all visible toolpaths to one file")
Just be sure to use the same size bit or else you will get an error popup in either case merged or the other.

Profile Toolpath - I have found that vector selection order works fine up until a point of when selecting a vector which confines or surrounds other vectors then other variable factors come into play. (example: what is outside and what is inside when selecting a vector that surrounds/confines other vectors).

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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by TReischl »

Wilson, it is apparent you did not read what I wrote.

I gave you the solution to producing exactly what you asked for: Cut the circles first and then the outlines. You wrote : "When I choose all the holes first and then the outlines...."

You obviously missed the part about using OUTSIDE profile cuts for OUTSIDE profiles and INSIDE profile cuts for INSIDE cuts. Instead you seem to have been too busy getting yourself all offended.

And yes, I did read what you wrote and yes I downloaded your file to see what was what. Why are you trying to cut INSIDE holes with the profile set to OUTSIDE?

Another tip for you since you seem eager for advice: DUPLICATE the first toolpath you do then you only have to change INSIDE to outside and all the other parameters remain the same.
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mrmfwilson
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by mrmfwilson »

I guess you didn't know that if you use an outside path and change a hole vector direction it will cut inside. That way I don't have to make two paths. Changing the direction of the vector changes which side the bit cuts on when you use either the inside or outside path. Yeah, I still don't like your comment. It was unnecessary.
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Re: Problems with Vector Selection Order toolpath

Post by Adrian »

mrmfwilson wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:01 pm
If you use a outside path and change the inner holes direction it will cut inside. That way I don't have to make two paths.
Not following that. The cut direction won't change if the cut is inside or outside unless you're using an open vector rather than a closed vector. If you select the vectors together (and they're closed) then the inner one is automatically cut on the inside.

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