Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pass

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timtsuga
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Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pass

Post by timtsuga »

I carve 3D maps and have done many in VCarve V9.5. This one is of the Olympic Peninsula and Puget Sound in the state of Washington and my first 3D carving using VCarve V10.0. There is an offset problem between the Roughing Pass and Final Pass.

After finishing the Roughing Pass of the topography, I noticed at the start of the Finish Pass that it is approximately 3/8 inch off in the X direction.

Fortunately, I caught the problem on the second raster pass of the spindle so the carving is not ruined.

Here is what I have done to try and fix this problem, but it has not worked.

- I checked the piece of wood and it has not moved.
- I regenerated the Tool Path in VCarve Pro Version 10
- I rebooted Mach3 and reloaded the new Tool File.
- I Home Referenced all three axes to zero then re-zeroed the x,y and z axis to the starting point on the slab of wood.
- I checked the X home switch and it looks fine (I run a CNC Router Parts machine).
- The Final Pass tool file aligns with the Roughing Pass tool file when viewing it in simulator in V Carve Pro-Version 10.

But when I cut it again, it continued to be out of alignment in the X axis by about 3/8 inch.

I have produced many 3D maps, but this one is the first with Version 10 of V Carve Pro. I find it difficult to believe that it could be related to Version 10. And, it must be something really stupid that I am doing.

Attached are photos that show the carving and the problem.
1. The entire carving after the Roughing Pass in case people want to see what the entire carving looks like.
2. The starting point of the Finish Pass. It should start at the Dark Arrow but starts at the Lighter Pencil arrow.
3. The ending point of the Finish Pass. It should stop 1/4 inch thru the groove in the wood from the Roughing pass, but it cuts past the end of the Roughing Pass.
4. Screen capture showing the Finish Pass
5. Screen capture showing the Roughing Pass done with a larger bit and Finish Pass. Notice how the Finish Pass stops 1/4 inch short of the Roughing Pass.

Work Around Solution?
- Reinstall Vectric Pro Version 9.5 and regenerate the Tool Path?
- Move the Finish Pass about 3/8 along the x axis, but that only compensates for the problem, does not solve.

Any insight and permanent solution would be helpful!

Photos 1 to 3 failed to upload, tried multiple times but they would not upload, not sure why, they were jpeg's the same size as the two photos that did upload.

Thanks!!!
Tim Gregg
Olympia, WA
Attachments
4. Screen capture showing the Finish Pass
4. Screen capture showing the Finish Pass
5. Screen capture showing the Roughing Pass done with a larger bit and Finish Pass.  Notice how the Finish Pass stops 1/4 inch short of the Roughing Pass.
5. Screen capture showing the Roughing Pass done with a larger bit and Finish Pass. Notice how the Finish Pass stops 1/4 inch short of the Roughing Pass.

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mtylerfl
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by mtylerfl »

Hi Tim,

As you probably know, we need to see your actual Vectric file in order to make sure the settings in your Toolpath are correct and properly troubleshoot without a lot of “guessing” what the problem could be.

The file is probably too large to upload to the Forum, so you’ll need to use DropBox (free to set up an account if you don’t already have one). Upload your file to your DropBox, then copy the download link to paste here so it can be downloaded by anyone willing to take a look at it.
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timtsuga
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by timtsuga »

Hi Michael,

Thanks for responding!!!

I will upload the file to my Google Drive, hopefully tonight but maybe not until tomorrow, and send you the link to download.

I am really miffed by this. I have done dozens of these carvings in V9.5 and the first time I get a really nice (expensive) slab and do a large map carving with V10, Murphy's Law strikes!!! :-)

You helped me solve my last problem when my vectors were not following the contours of the topography at the proper depth!!!

Thanks!!!!
Tim Gregg
Olympia, WA

timtsuga
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:24 pm
Model of CNC Machine: CNCRouterParts

Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by timtsuga »

Hi Michael,

I uploaded the crv file to my Google Drive. It is 60megs.

Here is the link to download it.



It will be interesting to see what you find!!! The carving looks great in the simulation from what I can determine, the Roughing and Finish Passes appear properly registered as I designed them. When carving, the Finish Pass moves about 3/8 in the X direction.

Thanks for taking a look.

While you do that, I think I will try using V9.5 again tomorrow morning to see if that works.

My offer still stands to send you a 3D carving file of any state you want!!!

Thank you!!!

Tim Gregg
Olympia, WA

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FixitMike
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by FixitMike »

Screen capture 5 reflects the fact that the boundary vector limits the position of the center of the rough pass cutter, while for the finish pass it limits the position of the edge of the cutter. Of course this does not explain your problem with X offset in the roughing cut.
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.

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ezurick
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by ezurick »

Additionally, which post processor are you selecting to go to mach3? I ran the preview of all your toolpaths and I see nothing out of the ordinary. But that means little since I am still new. Hopefully one of the experts will see something I missed. Also, I realize you've done many other carvings in v9.5, but are you sure there is no static issues with your table or spindle, or even your shopvac setup?
~ Ed

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mtylerfl
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by mtylerfl »

Hi Tim,

I peeked at your file and don’t see anything amiss that would cause the X Offset between your Roughing and the two Finish Toolpaths. There are a couple minor things I would have done differently during layout and toolpathing, but you may have very good reasons for setting it up the way you did, that I’m unaware of.

In any case, your file previews fine for me and I didn’t spot anything that would have caused the problem you had.

I wish I could have been more helpful!
Michael Tyler

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timtsuga
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:24 pm
Model of CNC Machine: CNCRouterParts

Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by timtsuga »

Michael,

Thanks for taking your time to look at the file!!!

Later today, I plan on going back to V9.5 to see what happens. Hopefully, the problem is with V10. Maybe I upgraded too fast!!!

If you have time, I would appreciate any additional information concerning your comment "minor things I would have done differently during layout and toolpathing". This old dog is always willing to learn!!!

Thanks!!!

And thanks to all who responded!

Tim Gregg
Olympia, WA

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mtylerfl
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Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by mtylerfl »

Hi Tim,

Just a couple little things like...

I would have moved everything so all cutting operations were centered on the material.

Some Toolpaths are split into separate ones that could be done in a single operation. (Profiles and Pockets).

I would not have done two Finishing Toolpaths at the 0 and 90 degrees set at 15% stepover. I would run a single Finish at 6 to 8% running with the grain.

But, as I mentioned, you may have very good reasons why you laid out and toolpathed as you did. Perhaps to suit clamping hold-downs, a placement jig, or bit lengths you have on hand or whatever was needed for your particular set up.

Nothing “wrong” with how it is, since the end result will come out fine anyway (if you don’t have that mysterious X Offset happen again!)
Michael Tyler

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timtsuga
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:24 pm
Model of CNC Machine: CNCRouterParts

Re: Registration Problem Between Roughing Pass and Final Pas

Post by timtsuga »

Michael,

Thanks for taking the time to provide more detail!!!

As you mentioned, I do have reasons for producing multiple tool files at various angles. Eg. I produce the same product with different grain orientation in the wood.

I found your final pass over lap of 6% to 8% most interesting. I used to do 10% and got a very smooth surface, so upped it to 15% with the same result, so have gone with that to save a huge amount of time. The final pass on the Olympic Peninsula and Puget Sound carving at 15% overlap is 1 hour and 40 minutes. I would hate to double that. Maybe I will try 6 to 8% some day on a small carving!

I have always gone cross grain with my cutting, especially with the roughing bits which produce splinters when going with the grain. I will try along the grain with the finish path but I would think that the wood fibers would tend to fuzz up more when cutting with the grain then across the grain.

I have only tested going with the grain once on a finish cut, on pine, and the result was not as smooth as cross cut.

If I ever figure out the cause of my problem, I will tell you. I have been looking at the text files for the tool paths and still can't figure out what went wrong. I think I am going to off set the final pass by minus 3/8 inch in the x direction and give that a try.

I will probably end up getting another slab of wood and re-doing everything. Kind of sad, lots of time into this one.

Thanks again!
Tim Gregg
Olympia, WA

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