VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

This forum is for general discussion regarding VCarve Pro
User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

When I saw Beki say they'd improved 3D Finish Toolpaths so they didn't jump around as much....Yeah :)
THIS is what it looked like in VCP9.518 on a preliminary "Buddha Cave" I made for Oak firewood;
9.15.19 VCP9.518  BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 1.jpg
9.15.19 VCP9.518  BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 2 PREVIEW STOPPED.jpg
It jumped around a bit, but basically carved from right to left.

SOo...Tried VCP10 on the last version of that file(with Clipping first, and even a Roughing Toolpath to check that out)...
Roughing worked sweet with a 1mm TBN using both a regular Roughing, AND using a 1mmTBN on a Finish toolpath (Roughing by cheat Z-zero up like I sometimes do....
BUT a Finish toolpath with the .25mmTBN went NUTSO!!!
Toolpath looks psychedelic, and the Ballnose made several SPACED lines, THEN went back and added a line or two to each previous line....Ad Finitum :cry:
Here's the Buddha VCP10;
9.15.19 BUG V10 PLAYING  BUDDHA ROUGHING FINISH 1MMTBN.jpg
9.15.19 BUG V10 PLAYING  BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 1.jpg
9.15.19 VCP10 FINISH FINISH TOOLPATH .25MMTBN 2 PREVIEW STOPPED.jpg
THEN I just did a low res 7X "Ural Squirrel" with lower Simulation Quality...... post in next few minutes
scott

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

Just to speed things up as Buddha was 50X, as it was just a bigger version for Oak...that I already cut in a 3"Walnut branch..
.25MM TBN did the same sort of behaviour ??? ;
9.15.19 VCP10 FINISH FINISH TOOLPATH .25MMTBN 1.jpg
9.15.19 VCP10 FINISH FINISH TOOLPATH .25MMTBN 2 PREVIEW.jpg
I used an odd outline, because most of my critters and such HAVE odd boundary vectors.

Could someone with a .25MM Radius Tapered Ball Nose already in their Database try a small odd shaped Boundary Vector model with that bit, at say 5% stepover for me Please?
Ready to hang it up at the moment with frustration :oops:
Probably something stupid I did with all the VCP10 playing around, BUT no more patience to try other small bits in a Finish Toolpath as it goes dark here :oops:
Time to take a BP pill and lie down!!
Thanks,
scott
scott

User avatar
mtylerfl
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4686
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:54 am
Model of CNC Machine: -CarveWright CNC -ShopBot Buddy PRSAlpha
Location: Brunswick, GA
Contact:

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by mtylerfl »

Hmm. I would have to see the actual file(s) to check the overall bit settings, Toolpath settings and so on, to troubleshoot this.
Michael Tyler

carvebuddy.com

facebook.com/carvebuddy

-CarveWright CNC
-ShopBot Buddy PRSAlpha CNC

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

I'll TRY to link that in the morning after caffeine and critter watching tomorrow Michael.
Thanks!!
scott
scott

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

Oh, at least I can add this;
2019-09-15 VCP10 SQUIRREL SETTINGS.jpg
Relatively typical settings for Medium Tiny (3X5" say)
scott

User avatar
highpockets
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3127
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: PDJ Pilot Pro

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by highpockets »

Just tried a really odd shape. Seems the Offset strategy works best.
Image 001.png
Raster strategy
Raster strategy
Offset strategy
Offset strategy
Tool setting for both
Tool setting for both
Toolpath setting for both (except strategy)
Toolpath setting for both (except strategy)
John
Maker of Chips

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

Aah...THANKS John!!!
It does it with a 1/32"BN too!
Thought my brain had finally turned the corner.....GLAD to see YOUR Post-Impressionist Abstract!! :D :D
Now I can come at it fresh tomorrow and sleep tonight:)
Thanks again John!
scott
scott

User avatar
mtylerfl
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4686
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:54 am
Model of CNC Machine: -CarveWright CNC -ShopBot Buddy PRSAlpha
Location: Brunswick, GA
Contact:

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by mtylerfl »

Well, yes - Offset strategy never had the “jumping around” issue. Only Raster had/has.

The version 10 has implemented some new calculations for reducing “jumps” when Raster strategy is used. In my own testing, some Raster carve “jumps” are indeed reduced or eliminated, others not so much.

Many variables, including overall shape, the amount of Boundary Offset, stepover setting, ...
Michael Tyler

carvebuddy.com

facebook.com/carvebuddy

-CarveWright CNC
-ShopBot Buddy PRSAlpha CNC

User avatar
martin54
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4893
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Gerber System 48,Denford Triac Modified
Location: Crossgates, Scotland

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by martin54 »

I have just toolpathed the same Model that John did & got good results with a finish toolpath which I couldn't understand so checked Johns settings & then tried again, he first toolpath I generated was with he raster angle set at 00 degrees as you can see in the first picture looks OK. So applying a 90 deg raster angle same as John used gave me a more colourful toolpath :lol: :lol:
This was with a 0.5mm TBN side angle 2.8 degrees.
raster 0 deg.jpg
raster 90 deg.jpg

User avatar
highpockets
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3127
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: PDJ Pilot Pro

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by highpockets »

Martin, what stepover % do is set on the tool? Using a 1/32" BN setting the stepover to 10% I get similar results to your top pic. If I set the stepover to 9% or less I get the colorful results.
I used Rastering 90° for testing.
John
Maker of Chips

User avatar
martin54
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 4893
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:12 pm
Model of CNC Machine: Gerber System 48,Denford Triac Modified
Location: Crossgates, Scotland

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by martin54 »

Stepover is set at 6% John, try a 00 raster angle, that is what I used for the top picture, the bottom one was same stepover but 90 deg raster angle same as yours. If you turn the new raster feature off you get a less colourful result at 90 deg :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
highpockets
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3127
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:04 pm
Model of CNC Machine: PDJ Pilot Pro

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by highpockets »

Thanks Martin, turning off Use New Raster did the trick. Not sure this makes any sense.
Raster strategy Raster angle 0.
Raster strategy Raster angle 0.
Raster strategy Raster angle 90
Raster strategy Raster angle 90
John
Maker of Chips

gregk
Vectric Staff
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:34 pm
Model of CNC Machine: None

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by gregk »

scottp55 wrote:When I saw Beki say they'd improved 3D Finish Toolpaths so they didn't jump around as much....Yeah :)
THIS is what it looked like in VCP9.518 on a preliminary "Buddha Cave" I made for Oak firewood;
9.15.19 VCP9.518 BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 1.jpg
9.15.19 VCP9.518 BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 2 PREVIEW STOPPED.jpg
It jumped around a bit, but basically carved from right to left.

SOo...Tried VCP10 on the last version of that file(with Clipping first, and even a Roughing Toolpath to check that out)...
Roughing worked sweet with a 1mm TBN using both a regular Roughing, AND using a 1mmTBN on a Finish toolpath (Roughing by cheat Z-zero up like I sometimes do....
BUT a Finish toolpath with the .25mmTBN went NUTSO!!!
Toolpath looks psychedelic, and the Ballnose made several SPACED lines, THEN went back and added a line or two to each previous line....Ad Finitum :cry:
Here's the Buddha VCP10;
9.15.19 BUG V10 PLAYING BUDDHA ROUGHING FINISH 1MMTBN.jpg
9.15.19 BUG V10 PLAYING BUDDHA FINISH FINISH .25MMTBN 1.jpg
9.15.19 VCP10 FINISH FINISH TOOLPATH .25MMTBN 2 PREVIEW STOPPED.jpg
THEN I just did a low res 7X "Ural Squirrel" with lower Simulation Quality...... post in next few minutes
Hi Scott,

This is really misbehaving. The new raster strategy should do better than the old one or at least not worst. Unfortunately this is not the case with your model.
Could you send your file with the settings that produced this effect to our support team please? We would really like to investigate and fix it.

As already mentioned in the options dialog there is an option called 'Use new raster'. Switching it to 'No' will restore behaviour from the previous version.

Apologies for all the inconvenience.

Greg K

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

Thanks You guys!! :)
Greg....Thanks, and will turn "New" off, and send file as soon as caffeinated and finished "Critter Watching" and inspecting the sunrise :)
scott

User avatar
scottp55
Vectric Wizard
Posts: 3694
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopbotDesktop 5.5"Z/spindle/VCP10
Location: Kennebunkport, Maine, US

Re: VCP10 .25mm Tapered Ball Nose problem

Post by scottp55 »

Hmmm......Went out to grab the little Walnut test Buddha file I had cut off control computer.
While toolpaths are recalculating on that 50X slower file, I tried a low resolution lobster in .V3M format to play and try to isolate problem.

Didn't have to get beyond a 1mm TBN finish toolpath before "Colorful" appeared.
8% stepover was normal jumping;
9.16.19 V10 TEST LOBSTER 8 PERCENT 1MMTBN.jpg
5% COLORS......and all I changed was stepover on a Duplicated toolpath;
9.16.19 V10 TEST LOBSTER 5 PERCENT 1MMTBN.jpg
9.16.19 V10 TEST LOBSTER 5 PERCENT 1MMTBN PREVIEW STOPPED.jpg
I'll just send this one to you Mark.
scott
scott

Post Reply