Tapering a pocket

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mrleonwhite
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Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

Can someone share with me how you tell the software you want a 30 degree tapered pocket in VCarve pro. I am new to CNC and VCarve software, I have only had my setup for 2 weeks now, but I am in love with it already a little frustrating at times though, like this when I can't figure out on my own how to do what I need to do with it.

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adze_cnc
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by adze_cnc »

It's not such a difficult task.

Let's say I'm pocketing a 4" square 1/4" deep in 1/2" material.

The pocket toolpath has a place to enter two tools. "Tool" and an optional "Use Larger Area Clearance Tool". Would the 30 deg cutter be the one to use for larger clearance? No; therefore the only place it can go is in "Tool".

Do I want to cut the whole pocket out with the 30 deg cutter? Probably not so I'll specify a 1/4" cutter for the "Use Larger Area Clearance" tool.

Running it I see that the top of the material is the 4" square and the bottom of the pocket is smaller than 4" square. If that's acceptable I'm finished.

If I want the bottom of the pocket to be the 4" square then I'll need to do a bit of trigonometry to figure out how much larger that I need to offset the initial 4" square vector to get that result I need. Then I'll use that vector in the pocket toolpath.

If I don't want to do the math I could create the first pocket then create a profile toolpath "on the line" using the 30-degree tool and the 4" square vector.

No file attached. I suggest creating a test file and try the above.

mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

@adze_cnc, thanks for the reply but I want the pocket to be tapered 30 degrees not necessarily using a 30 degree bit. I am trying to create a 30 degree mortise for my tenon. How do I do that in VCarve Pro?

potzmannwoodshop
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by potzmannwoodshop »

mrleonwhite wrote:@adze_cnc, thanks for the reply but I want the pocket to be tapered 30 degrees not necessarily using a 30 degree bit. I am trying to create a 30 degree mortise for my tenon. How do I do that in VCarve Pro?

What you are asking is a basic cad issue. Have you gone through all of the tutorials yet?

mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

potzmannwoodshop wrote:
mrleonwhite wrote:@adze_cnc, thanks for the reply but I want the pocket to be tapered 30 degrees not necessarily using a 30 degree bit. I am trying to create a 30 degree mortise for my tenon. How do I do that in VCarve Pro?

What you are asking is a basic cad issue. Have you gone through all of the tutorials yet?

@potzmannwoodshop thanks for your reply but unlike you I am not versed in CAD\CAM or any other design type software and no I have not gone through all of the videos I have only been at this for 2 weeks and up until now I have not had any exposure to this way of working. So I thought this forum was a place I could find help and support while I continue to learn and watch the videos.

ger21
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by ger21 »

I'm not sure if everyone (or anyone?) really understands what you want to do. Can you post a picture or sketch?
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com

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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by PaulRowntree »

mrleonwhite wrote:Can someone share with me how you tell the software you want a 30 degree tapered pocket in VCarve pro. I am new to CNC and VCarve software, I have only had my setup for 2 weeks now, but I am in love with it already a little frustrating at times though, like this when I can't figure out on my own how to do what I need to do with it.
The forum is a great place for these questions.... welcome to the group!

You could do this kind of tapered hole using a 3D toolpath sjap from an STL file, but I think that would get old soon with VCP.

To use a vector based approach (which is where VCP shines) you could try to use a Flute toolpath over the sloping area. First do the square part with a simple pocket to remove most of the material, then work the edges using the Flute toolpath with a linear ramp, over the short lateral dimension of the sloping section. You will need to do this for many closely-spaced vectors to produce a smoothly shaped 30 degree wall.

My FlutePlus gadget will also do it, but there isn't much advantage for a straight sloping section.

To make a cleaner , smoother sloping edge for a tight mortise/tenon joint, you might consider a jig where the material is sloped at 30 degrees after cutting the square hole ... lots of repositioning of the material though, many chances for errors.

Let us know if you would like an example ..
Cheers!
Paul Rowntree
WarpDriver, StandingWave, Topo and gadgets available at PaulRowntree.weebly.com

mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

PaulRowntree wrote:
mrleonwhite wrote:Can someone share with me how you tell the software you want a 30 degree tapered pocket in VCarve pro. I am new to CNC and VCarve software, I have only had my setup for 2 weeks now, but I am in love with it already a little frustrating at times though, like this when I can't figure out on my own how to do what I need to do with it.
The forum is a great place for these questions.... welcome to the group!

You could do this kind of tapered hole using a 3D toolpath sjap from an STL file, but I think that would get old soon with VCP.

To use a vector based approach (which is where VCP shines) you could try to use a Flute toolpath over the sloping area. First do the square part with a simple pocket to remove most of the material, then work the edges using the Flute toolpath with a linear ramp, over the short lateral dimension of the sloping section. You will need to do this for many closely-spaced vectors to produce a smoothly shaped 30 degree wall.

My FlutePlus gadget will also do it, but there isn't much advantage for a straight sloping section.

To make a cleaner , smoother sloping edge for a tight mortise/tenon joint, you might consider a jig where the material is sloped at 30 degrees after cutting the square hole ... lots of repositioning of the material though, many chances for errors.

Let us know if you would like an example ..
Cheers!
Hi Paul,
An example would be great because I am still learning my way around this software and I think you got the idea of what I am trying to do.

potzmannwoodshop
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by potzmannwoodshop »

mrleonwhite wrote: @potzmannwoodshop thanks for your reply but unlike you I am not versed in CAD\CAM or any other design type software and no I have not gone through all of the videos I have only been at this for 2 weeks and up until now I have not had any exposure to this way of working. So I thought this forum was a place I could find help and support while I continue to learn and watch the videos.

I totally get it, this is all foreign, but in the past two weeks if you had gone through all the videos you would know what you are after. I think I understand the request, and it is a pretty basic Cad task. Im teaching you to fish, not giving you fist. Go watch the vids and work along with them .

potzmannwoodshop
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by potzmannwoodshop »

potzmannwoodshop wrote:
mrleonwhite wrote: @potzmannwoodshop thanks for your reply but unlike you I am not versed in CAD\CAM or any other design type software and no I have not gone through all of the videos I have only been at this for 2 weeks and up until now I have not had any exposure to this way of working. So I thought this forum was a place I could find help and support while I continue to learn and watch the videos.

I totally get it, this is all foreign, but in the past two weeks if you had gone through all the videos you would know what you are after. I think I understand the request, and it is a pretty basic Cad task. Im teaching you to fish, not giving you fist. Go watch the vids and work along with them .

YOu want to know how to creat a line 30 degrees off another line, You will learn about this when you watch the video that includes create poly line. or read this document https://docs.vectric.com/docs/V9.0/VCar ... yline.html

Image

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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by 4DThinker »

If you want a mortise pocket that doesn't go straight down (90 degrees), but rather 30 degree off of vertical, then the only way is to somehow tilt your board so it is 30 degrees off being horizontal. I teach furniture design, and when a board needs to meet another board at 30 degrees I generally cut the mortise straight down, then clamp the board at 30 degrees to the cut a tenon from the end grain. I have a jig I can adjust to anywhere between horizontal and vertical for this task: http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... mping.html

In this post I have several examples of joinery that connects at an angle: http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/05 ... c-cut.html. Usually the mortises are cut vertically into the board, and the tenons are cut with the board clamped at an angle.

Of course I also have a CNC that allows me to open up the bed to clamp the jig into it.

4D

mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

potzmannwoodshop wrote:
potzmannwoodshop wrote:
mrleonwhite wrote: @potzmannwoodshop thanks for your reply but unlike you I am not versed in CAD\CAM or any other design type software and no I have not gone through all of the videos I have only been at this for 2 weeks and up until now I have not had any exposure to this way of working. So I thought this forum was a place I could find help and support while I continue to learn and watch the videos.

I totally get it, this is all foreign, but in the past two weeks if you had gone through all the videos you would know what you are after. I think I understand the request, and it is a pretty basic Cad task. Im teaching you to fish, not giving you fist. Go watch the vids and work along with them .

YOu want to know how to creat a line 30 degrees off another line, You will learn about this when you watch the video that includes create poly line. or read this document https://docs.vectric.com/docs/V9.0/VCar ... yline.html

Image
I read that document and that doesn't tell me how to do what I want to do I am try to do something like the attachment. I know the attachment is not 30 degrees but it gives you an idea of what I am trying to accomplish. I know how to do this without the CNC be I would like to know how to do it with the cnc.
Attachments
taper.png

mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

4DThinker wrote:If you want a mortise pocket that doesn't go straight down (90 degrees), but rather 30 degree off of vertical, then the only way is to somehow tilt your board so it is 30 degrees off being horizontal. I teach furniture design, and when a board needs to meet another board at 30 degrees I generally cut the mortise straight down, then clamp the board at 30 degrees to the cut a tenon from the end grain. I have a jig I can adjust to anywhere between horizontal and vertical for this task: http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/04 ... mping.html

In this post I have several examples of joinery that connects at an angle: http://4dfurniture.blogspot.com/2016/05 ... c-cut.html. Usually the mortises are cut vertically into the board, and the tenons are cut with the board clamped at an angle.

Of course I also have a CNC that allows me to open up the bed to clamp the jig into it.

4D
Hi 4DThinker,
That would solve my issue but is not an option for me. I was hoping that there was a way to accomplish this while my part is laying flat so that I don't have to reposition my part to finish my cuts. I looked at your links and I am really impressed with your joinery work there. I wished I knew how to do that. I need to be in your class. Where do you teach?
Last edited by mrleonwhite on Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FixitMike
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by FixitMike »

You can make a mortise with a bottom that slopes at 30 degrees by using closely spaced straight lines and the fluting toolpath. But you cannot make a mortise that enters the material at an angle so that there is an undercut. Vectric products cannot do undercuts, unless you in some way lie to the machine about the tool or toolpath. In any case they cannot show an undercut.


Here is an example of a taper with the flute toolpath. If you enter a start depth, it will be a pocket with a tapered bottom.
Taper.PNG
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mrleonwhite
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Re: Tapering a pocket

Post by mrleonwhite »

FixitMike wrote:You can make a mortise with a bottom that slopes at 30 degrees by using closely spaced straight lines and the fluting toolpath. But you cannot make a mortise that enters the material at an angle so that there is an undercut. Vectric products cannot do undercuts, unless you in some way lie to the machine about the tool or toolpath. In any case they cannot show an undercut.


Here is an example of a taper with the flute toolpath. If you enter a start depth, it will be a pocket with a tapered bottom.
Taper.PNG
Thanks FixitMike that is what I am trying to accomplish. Thank you. I will try that tomorrow and let you know how it turned out for me. Thank you.

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