Hey Vectric ! Time for LATHE CAM !!!

[grummy]

Well Paul, that is pretty impressive if you can pull that off in Vcarve with...... which one of your gadgets again ?

I see that the tool path appears to leave the correct stock, but I wouldn't bank on it without a measurement. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are still limited to a round spinning tool, right ? So as things get finer and finer, or even pointed, you might have to run very very slow to get into the cracks, and even then, there are cracks you simply can not get into all the way because the bit is forever round.

I assume that you can include roughing to that path so that you can get there a a few thou at a time ? I already know what the finish would look like on the material in comparison to a fixed tool.... not so hot... especially on just about anything but wood. Every time I have run a rotary bit on a rotating axis, the quality has been hairier than if you use a nice fixed knife.

The think is, I should not have sent you that Blue line example... that too was simple! The second image just displayed how the leading edge and trailing edge of the tool was taken into account. And yes, I did not think you could undercut either...... and its WHY I've raised the LatheCam topic to Vectric because frankly, they could do it without breaking a sweat, and have another program to sell that I would buy.

I should have sent you something more typical to what you probably can not do ! Now. dont waste your time doing it, but I attached something trickier. Seriously, MILL has limitations in this regard and always will. That is why there exist Lathe tool path generation that is based around the thousands of different off the shelf shapes of insert tooling, along with the various directional tool holders. I'd want Vectric to include the ability for me to draw my custom made tooling and create paths from it.

Now the file I uploaded is not a final lathe example either because the whole job could be done with one lathe tool sharpened to a point, and a mill will never be able to bring the shape to a finish without a few tool changes and some very slow work so you dont break that final tool.

I'm no where near convinced that the gadget world is capable of really filling the role of Lathe Cam.... there just is a lot more to it than we discussed. Not that it is harder to figure out by developers by any means. I did not realize it until I had a lathe and tried to turn my first ball shape with mill CAM. Luckily I had a program that does lathe paths well enough and was able to get by. Now that program is on its deathbed and I will need to replace it.

[IslaWW]

Grummy, etal...
I need to apologize.

One for joining a thread that by my mistake was referring to full lathe machining ability when my application was added feature to 4th axis rotary mounted on small CNC platforms. The full machining packages are readily available, priced fairly with the features the offer. It appears that the majority of features that yourself and Leo would request have little or nothing in common with mine. I apologize for misdirecting the thread.

I also apologize to my fellow forum users for posting in a thread where the OP may be more intent on listing perceived shortfall, lack of feature, and features that other software titles have than Vectric's titles in a positive light. This, by the way, is the Vectric forum. Hosted by them to enable information and help in support of their user base. In the long run little will be gained, especially by yourself, by antagonistic responses that use other software as example of what is missing in current Vectric versions. It appears that this is not the only thread where you have chosen this path.

HINT: >>>>BEARS.... Honey/Vinegar????? Seems simple to me

[grummy]

If somehow my opinions and comparisons, or, my wonders as to whether Vectrics programs will ever do something that other programs do hurts your feelings thru emotionless text..... Don't make me the bad guy just because I raise awareness while searching for answers.

The title is LATHE CAM. The question was will Vectric ever consider it seeing that they do already have 90+% of the knowledge, technique and capability to do so. At the risk of being rash, OTHER companies who have 3,4, and 5 axis Tool path generations programs also have found it financially beneficial to include or offer a stand alone Lathe package to enhance their line up.

I think to date it has been proven that there is a difference, that what is there now even with a gadget, Vectric is still not Lathe, and those who have a lathe, or a lathe used as a 4th axis on their hobby machine will understand that.... eventually. Unfortunately for me, if Vectric started today on a program, it would probably not be released by the time I'll need to have one. And there are others out there, but it sure would be nice to condense my needs down to 2 or 3 Cad/Cam programs to maintain instead of 10.

BTW, You MAY have misinterpreted my other recent thread as well.

[PaulRowntree]

You are spot on : large tools cannot machine small crevice-like features, small tools machine slowly.

Good luck with Microsoft's 'computer revolution'. XP was powering my entire lab, and I am loathe to replace it with Win8. But you have to keep up or get trampled ...
Cheers!

[denny98501]

I also would like to see a Vectric move into the metal working aspect of CNC work.
I believe that the biggest obstruction in producing a CNC lathe is that there a a lack of easy to use lathe software.
It is a chicken and egg sort of thing.

While we are talking lathe work, I would also like to see Vectric add a means to use a vertical mill as a vertical lathe.
I see the Tormach guys doing it with some Mach 3 wizards.

And while we are wishing, I would like to see a Mill 2D program that would provide the functions of Cut 2D and add a few milling machine specifics such as thread milling and compression tapping.

I think that it is time to provide a mill and lathe software package and call it Vectric Machinist.

[Timvmax]

I have a cnc lathe that I bought about 5 years ago, it's a non-runner but I have all the stuff I need to make it work, just never had the need for it as I have a manual lathe.
Now if Vectric made Lathecam I'd be out there wiring it up today

[dansfoundry]

Just curious, tell me what you know about vectric software running a vinyl cutter. I have an older cutter running on other software and would prefer vectric anytime. Thanks Dan

[denny98501]

Just curious, tell me what you know about vectric software running a vinyl cutter. I have an older cutter running on cadlink software and would prefer vectric anytime. Thanks Dan

The latest version of V-carve has a gadget for cutting vinyl with a drag knife.
Donek Tools sells drag knives..

[denny98501]

I want it for both. While I see many asking about having more traditional metal machining added, I think my hopes really were to keep things more simple.

While we know that Vectric does not have those deeper things metal workers use like Diameter and Length Compensation or all the various "Cycles" we are familiar with, there still are many of metal machine users who have started to use Vectric because of its ease for those simple profile and pocket jobs, especially in the hobby side of things. I believe you find a lot of hobby types who are using insert tooling, and as such, they really do not need Tool comp because they are not dealing with rotated resharpened undersized tooling they need the control to adjust for. And when you get right down to it, the Price of VCarve is stunningly low for what it does.

I use V-Carve on my Shopbot, Centroid Mill and FSE laser.
It works great for all of them. (There is a FSE Retina Engrave Post Processor on the FSE forum.)

If you use V-Carve, tool comp is not needed. You input the tool diameter into V-Carve and it calcs the tool path.
Tool length comp is handled by the milling machine so it also is not needed in V-Carve.
V-Carve does all the Cycles needed for most 2-1/2 d machining except the threading cycles.
I just cut and paste threading cycles from a different program into the V-carve output file.
V-Carve even allows for tool changes.

V-Carve is just a lot easier to use than most other CNC programs and the fact that it has its own CAD program built in makes it a lot faster than most.
It would be nice to see a similar CNC lathe program also.

[grummy]

I just wanted to clarify something about tool compensation.

It's not exactly that with Vectric "you do not need it"...... It's more like with Vectric, you do not need it IF you happen to always use a known diameter tool, which is what MOST of Vectric's users do.

The reason for tool offset and length compensation via the common G-Code(s) G4(x), is where the machine has a tool changer loaded with tooling that routinely gets sent out for "touch up" sharpening, often just removing a few thousands of material, but sometimes more. If you step in to most machine shops, you find NEW tooling under lock and key, and an awful lot of resharpened tools in the carousels.

In any event, these, now smaller diameter and length tools get put back in the changer and the tool database in the machine updated with the new smaller dimensions. G-Codes G40, G41, G42, Etc., inserted into the code properly along with the tool change allows you to always define a cut as directly ON a profile line, and the controls built in tool library and internal calculation decides how far to offset the tool path.

Many will argue that this is the only way a true CNC machine should be operated as you can then get a more "generic" toolpath (being made ONLINE rather than offset), and the final outcome can be controlled at the machine rather than going back to the cam software and regenerating a tool path for a slightly larger or smaller diameter tool. The machine operator can quickly make a particular tool think it is larger (or smaller), which can leave some material behind on the final pass, then dial things into perfection by altering the tools data and re-running the exact same tool path. This is beneficial down the road too if the same part ever has to be made again as you can use any similar tool.... and the same online tool path.

Now you CAN use tool offset compensation with Vectric if you just create a post for each different type of offset you intend to use (left, right or length). During the Vectric Cam process, you for example will pick an entity and select to cut it ONLINE, and NOT offset on either side. Then the post for the most part can insert the G4x offset command with the tool used and the control will do the rest. The offset event is modal so it has to be canceled at the end of the path.

So, a person CAN use diameter and length comp if you create post files to provide the offset commands to the control. It's a behind the scenes kind of thing, but completely doable. Yet regards lathe, I think it best for them to just release something as simple as their Cut 2d and let "passes" deal with some of the "cycles" real machinists are used to.

[FastFarmer]

Yeah, look, my two cents worth. I think Vectric should stay focused on milling and not be distracted. It's the easiest program to use by far but it has many shortfalls. Often we have to use another cam to do what it can't, and it's so complex I hate it. I would just like 1 cam program!!!

I would rather Vectric focused on giving us indexing, gear cutting, spline cutting, fly cutting etc. I would also like to see rotary milling in Cut3D and I would like to see Aspire\VCarve support 4th axis milling on the vertical. Currently on the 4th, only wapping is supported which often has a unsuitable tool path, is quite limited, and cannot deal with true undercuts. A while ago I asked Vectric about all this and they have no plans to support them.

So for my money, I would like to see Vectric move away from the hobby arena and compete in milling with the more advanced cams. I would also like to see other features like cutting of bevels and edges as opposed to fluting and slopes. If they run out of features they can tackle 5-axis...

As for lathe work, we run two cnc lathes that we cam with a program starting with the letter D. The 2D CAD has to be the worst ever, but the CAM is excellent and for what you get cheap. Vectric would be crazy to try and compete....