Dust collection, or lack there of
Dust collection, or lack there of
There is a thread on the ShopBot forum that got my attention. I have been aware of the need for better
more efficient dust collection from my router. I have known of the severe problems wood dust and
formaldahyde (spelling?) in MDF can cause and have intended to improve my system for several years.
You all know how easy it is to put things off , right? It might be a good idea to go to the forum and read all the posts
there is some good information there. John Haggertys post mentioned a company in Florida called
Americanfabricfilters.com I called and talked to a very well informed man named Scott. He went over my system
and recommended a new bag. I was so impressed with his approach that I just ordered the bag and didn't shop
anywhere else. I have a Jet 1100 CFM 1.5Hp . The old setup did OK but still let out a lot of the finer particles the
ones that you do not want to breath. His replacement bags are a type of felt material and will filter down to a couple
of microns depending on bag condition. I will not try to get to much into particle size and such. Do your own research
and review you system and make up grades if needed. I know that everyone that reads this forum knows what I
am talking about. Just something to think about.
Tom B.
more efficient dust collection from my router. I have known of the severe problems wood dust and
formaldahyde (spelling?) in MDF can cause and have intended to improve my system for several years.
You all know how easy it is to put things off , right? It might be a good idea to go to the forum and read all the posts
there is some good information there. John Haggertys post mentioned a company in Florida called
Americanfabricfilters.com I called and talked to a very well informed man named Scott. He went over my system
and recommended a new bag. I was so impressed with his approach that I just ordered the bag and didn't shop
anywhere else. I have a Jet 1100 CFM 1.5Hp . The old setup did OK but still let out a lot of the finer particles the
ones that you do not want to breath. His replacement bags are a type of felt material and will filter down to a couple
of microns depending on bag condition. I will not try to get to much into particle size and such. Do your own research
and review you system and make up grades if needed. I know that everyone that reads this forum knows what I
am talking about. Just something to think about.
Tom B.
- Thkoutsidthebox
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- dighsx
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Dust of any kind isn't good in your lungs. I've got a sheet around here I should scan that shows all the different woods and what their dust does to ya. And I'm not even talking about MDF yet.
Three things (in my opinion) you gotta look for in a dust collection system, CFM's (the more the better), cyclone, and 0.2 micron filters or better. Most non cyclone systems will only filter down to 2 microns. Once you switch over to the cyclone system you can really start getting the smaller particles. And get the biggest CFM system you can afford. You can't beat being able to move more air (and crap) thur the system.
I've got a 1.5hp 1100cfm Grizzly cyclone system that I'm real happy with. My dust hood on the machine could use some work but the cfm's of the machine help counter that. It took one big mdf job and my wife told me I'm buying a dust system. My shop is in the basement and with this new setup I don't get that haze in the air I used to get when I used the shopvac.
I'm not plugin' Grizzly here (although I'm happy with my machine from them) but here's a good booklet on dust collection from them that I really learned a lot from: http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pd ... ectors.pdf
Here's OSHA's take on wood dust: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/index.html
Another good pdf on the subject (which also made me think that wood dust isn't the only problem, don't forget fumes from glue, stains, and the like) http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~lohp/grap ... oddust.pdf
Here's a chart like the one I have that lists the woods and the risk level (the site loads a little slow so give it time) http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm
I live with a doctor so I get the 3rd degree about all this stuff all the time. Like I'm told (over and over) you only got one set of lungs, ears, eyes, etc. Ear plugs are cheap, you only need to buy one set of safety glasses, dust system will pay for itself just on clean up times alone, not to mention saving your lungs. So use your heads, and if you can't use yours use someone else's and be safe.
Three things (in my opinion) you gotta look for in a dust collection system, CFM's (the more the better), cyclone, and 0.2 micron filters or better. Most non cyclone systems will only filter down to 2 microns. Once you switch over to the cyclone system you can really start getting the smaller particles. And get the biggest CFM system you can afford. You can't beat being able to move more air (and crap) thur the system.
I've got a 1.5hp 1100cfm Grizzly cyclone system that I'm real happy with. My dust hood on the machine could use some work but the cfm's of the machine help counter that. It took one big mdf job and my wife told me I'm buying a dust system. My shop is in the basement and with this new setup I don't get that haze in the air I used to get when I used the shopvac.
I'm not plugin' Grizzly here (although I'm happy with my machine from them) but here's a good booklet on dust collection from them that I really learned a lot from: http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/pd ... ectors.pdf
Here's OSHA's take on wood dust: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/index.html
Another good pdf on the subject (which also made me think that wood dust isn't the only problem, don't forget fumes from glue, stains, and the like) http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~lohp/grap ... oddust.pdf
Here's a chart like the one I have that lists the woods and the risk level (the site loads a little slow so give it time) http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm
I live with a doctor so I get the 3rd degree about all this stuff all the time. Like I'm told (over and over) you only got one set of lungs, ears, eyes, etc. Ear plugs are cheap, you only need to buy one set of safety glasses, dust system will pay for itself just on clean up times alone, not to mention saving your lungs. So use your heads, and if you can't use yours use someone else's and be safe.
Take it easy.
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
- DeweyDog
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Jay that was a excellent reply. I have a oneida 2hp cyclone and am very happy with it. I have just completed a job cutting 120 sheets of mdf. I previously fabricated a new PC router dust colllection hood thing was that diverts the down blast into the collectors airstream and about 95% of the air borne dust was eliminated. I also have my system hooked up so when any tool is started the dust collector starts automaticly and runs 15 sec. after shutdown, this makes it mindless to turn on the lung saving device.
- dighsx
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DeweyDog, any pictures of your dust hood you could share would be great. I'd like to see your setup. I need to redo mine in the worst way.
This seems kinda silly but here's a good site that shows how to put on a dust mask: http://www.moldex.com/fittinginstructions.htm After looking it over it really starts to make you wonder if the mask you have is really doing you any good. They have a chart on that site someplace that shows what masks you need for each type of thing you're doing.
This seems kinda silly but here's a good site that shows how to put on a dust mask: http://www.moldex.com/fittinginstructions.htm After looking it over it really starts to make you wonder if the mask you have is really doing you any good. They have a chart on that site someplace that shows what masks you need for each type of thing you're doing.
Take it easy.
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
Silly question.
Are you guys also using the mask/respirator (with filters) when doing jobs?
I have to be honest and say that I didn't even think about health-side of this job/hobby when I decided to order a CNC machine. After reading some articles on the issue, I'm scared to death. Guess it's better than thinking "ah, it doesn't matter" or "later"
Are you guys also using the mask/respirator (with filters) when doing jobs?
I have to be honest and say that I didn't even think about health-side of this job/hobby when I decided to order a CNC machine. After reading some articles on the issue, I'm scared to death. Guess it's better than thinking "ah, it doesn't matter" or "later"
- Thkoutsidthebox
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The only silly question is the one that wasn't asked.Sentinel wrote:Silly question.
Are you guys also using the mask/respirator (with filters) when doing jobs?
Here's my new PAPR system. I'll be using it while working because I only have a shopvac at the moment, and no space for a proper extractor. And my shopvac isn't rated for respiratory protection without using bags which I think are hard to get, and a pain to have to use.
Cost a bit, but a lot less than a lung transplant!!
- dighsx
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Little off the subject here but are those tubes of bearings in the right of that shot?
When I cut most stuff I just used the cyclone and no dust mask. But when I cut MDF I use the cyclone and a dust mask. Or get out of the area.
Here's a good over view about the hazards of MDF: http://www.cofa.unsw.edu.au/schoolsunit ... _0001.html
To be honest one thing I find funny about me and all this, is many a time I'll be running the machine with the cyclone running and smoking a pipe. So am I better or worse off? MDF I think is worse in the short term then pipe smoking (more damage done per exposure) but it is kinda funny when you step back and think about it. So for me the main reason I have a dust collector is to keep the dust down, then if I can save me from inhaling some nasties all the better.
I know MDF and Western Red Cedar are really bad for you. Also many non-domestic woods have spores in them that are bad for you. And any pressure treated wood is bad. But then again inhaling anything other then pure air isn't good for you. So use your heads, get some sort of dust collection system and if you can see a haze in the air after cutting for a bit, it might be time to buy a good dust mask (not the cheapo paper ones).
mmmm speaking of pipes I think it's about time I light up.... heheheh
When I cut most stuff I just used the cyclone and no dust mask. But when I cut MDF I use the cyclone and a dust mask. Or get out of the area.
Here's a good over view about the hazards of MDF: http://www.cofa.unsw.edu.au/schoolsunit ... _0001.html
To be honest one thing I find funny about me and all this, is many a time I'll be running the machine with the cyclone running and smoking a pipe. So am I better or worse off? MDF I think is worse in the short term then pipe smoking (more damage done per exposure) but it is kinda funny when you step back and think about it. So for me the main reason I have a dust collector is to keep the dust down, then if I can save me from inhaling some nasties all the better.
I know MDF and Western Red Cedar are really bad for you. Also many non-domestic woods have spores in them that are bad for you. And any pressure treated wood is bad. But then again inhaling anything other then pure air isn't good for you. So use your heads, get some sort of dust collection system and if you can see a haze in the air after cutting for a bit, it might be time to buy a good dust mask (not the cheapo paper ones).
mmmm speaking of pipes I think it's about time I light up.... heheheh
Take it easy.
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
- TReischl
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Good thread, guys! Another item to consider is a whole shop air filtration/circulator hanging from the ceiling. I bought one about ten years ago, did not use it all that much cause I was in a garage shop and worked mostly with the door open. Nowadays, I am in a basement shop and I use it a lot. What got me using it was when I noticed the dust showing up in sunlight coming through the window, it was bad. They are not real noisy and do a heck of a job getting the really fine floaty stuff. According to specs it supposedly changes the air over in my shop about once every 8 minutes.
Have to agree with you guys about the MDF too. I like it, but darn! The dust is just incredible. Between the dust problem and finishing, I am looking hard to use something else, even if it costs a lot more. I have a cartridge type Delta 1100 CFM and it does pretty good, but it seems like MDF can create a stream of dust off the router that can shoot right through the hair ring around it.
I have been cutting a PVC material. It is two skins with a foam layer between. It doesn't seem to produce much dust, more like chunks and globs. The only trouble I have with it is in the corner where the V tool meets an end mill pocket. If the depths are not real close, it can leave strings. It paints well and holds vinyl real nice too. I have been using the special plastic paint, but my paint guy says that almost all paints will bond to plastic. I will give it a try. And then worry about paint particles in the air!
Have to agree with you guys about the MDF too. I like it, but darn! The dust is just incredible. Between the dust problem and finishing, I am looking hard to use something else, even if it costs a lot more. I have a cartridge type Delta 1100 CFM and it does pretty good, but it seems like MDF can create a stream of dust off the router that can shoot right through the hair ring around it.
I have been cutting a PVC material. It is two skins with a foam layer between. It doesn't seem to produce much dust, more like chunks and globs. The only trouble I have with it is in the corner where the V tool meets an end mill pocket. If the depths are not real close, it can leave strings. It paints well and holds vinyl real nice too. I have been using the special plastic paint, but my paint guy says that almost all paints will bond to plastic. I will give it a try. And then worry about paint particles in the air!
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns
Good this thread is doing just what I wanted it to do , get you all to thing about the dust problem!!
My idea about the box fan I referenced in my first post above is just to supplement your main system
and can be moved to any part of the shop to help with spot problems. It is more efficient than you
would think and cheap to make. I will post a picture of the bag I am having made for my Jet when available.
Keep the ideas coming.
Tom B.
My idea about the box fan I referenced in my first post above is just to supplement your main system
and can be moved to any part of the shop to help with spot problems. It is more efficient than you
would think and cheap to make. I will post a picture of the bag I am having made for my Jet when available.
Keep the ideas coming.
Tom B.
- Rcnewcomb
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The first week we were in business we bought a Delta air filter and mounted it up in the ceiling. We really appreciated what it was doing as we visited other shops and saw how poor the air quality was.a whole shop air filtration/circulator hanging from the ceiling
A filter like the Delta or Jet is less than the cost of one trip to the emergency room for an asthma attack (ask me how I know).
- DeweyDog
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Well I got around to taking some pic's of the dust boot on my PC router. The body is made of two 1/2" pieces of clear acrylic and bonded together with recomended adhesive.(nasty stuff) The brush and channel was bought from McMaster Carr. This is a prototype and I want to make the next one smaller out of lexan.You can see what I explained in the earlier post how the air blast is diverted into the dust collection stream. I just ran 120 sheets of MDF, had very good results with the amount of dust it collected and the router was only warm to the touch.
- dighsx
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Hey that's a pretty cool design, ever think about selling a couple?
Take it easy.
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
Jay (www.cncjay.com)
- TReischl
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Very nice design! Makes mine look like a homebuilt (which it was!). If you are not going to sell them, would you mind posting some vcarve files and material sizes and thicknesses? I will definitely make one! I have a PC 892, which is like a 690, et al.
Nice job!
Nice job!
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns