Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

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Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:21 pm

While Beta testing V3, with the helpful ideas of a few of the other testers, I came up with a way of reducing the overall height of a model while retaining the original detail.

In this example I use a flat plane that is faded, but you could also use a shape that fades in all around from the edges and drops in the middle, if you wanted to keep the edges the same.


The process:
First, I start with this model. Note the overall height. I want to reduce this height and retain the same detail. In addition I felt the top of the Eagles head was too tall. While the bottom with the feathers is almost right.
new-1.jpg

To that end I created a negative flat plane shape (-0.1") and faded the bottom of it to 100%. This makes the top of the eagle head drop below the working plane 0.1" and the bottom of the head almost flush.
new-2.jpg

Note that 0.0985" is now below the working plane. Leaving 0.3196" above the plane.
new-3.jpg

I then slice the composite model at 0.0985" increments. This is because the slice feature starts at the base of the model and works up. And I want to cut off the 0.0985" that is below the working plane. So I want the first cut to be at that level of the working plane.
new-4.jpg

After the slicing is complete I de-activate the first slice to see what is left.
new-5.jpg

After deleting the old data and the first slice, I bake the rest of the slices together to review the final result.
new-6.jpg


The detail on the model is the same as the original, being that I did not scale the height or fade it. This process gives you a lot of bang for your buck!

Just a taste for what V3 has to offer...
Tim
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:54 pm

Another method to achieve the same result is to use the stl export option. Then import it back in while, discarding the data below the working plane.

The Process:
I will not duplicate the steps to add the negative shape detailed above. So I start this after creating the negative 0.1" shape and fading it.

Go to the option to save the composite model as an stl file.
new-1.jpg

Set the triangulation to a very high level so you do not lose any detail. In my case I used 0.0001". Then save the stl file.
new-2.jpg

After that import the previously saved stl file. Note that the orientation pane automatically will put the working plane at the same level that it was when you exported the file. Make sure the "discard data below working plane" is checked. And say OK
new-3.jpg

The result is a component with the data off of the bottom removed, with all of its original detail.
new-4.jpg

Tim
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Fleming » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:57 am

Tim,

Many thanks for an excellent tip! :D Just last weekend I was wrestling with the issue that shrinking a 3D object loses some Z detail and your tip really helps. My question is this - is there a way to shrink only the XY and leave the Z height intact?? As was discussed on a topic dealing with topographical maps, it helps to have the z distorted sometimes to leave some detail intact and emphasized. You can always adjust the Z downward (losing some detail) later to get the height you want but adjusting the Z upward does not re-capture the detail lost after shrinking an object. Does version 3 help us in this regard???

Thanks,

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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:26 am

Fleming wrote:You can always adjust the Z downward (losing some detail) later to get the height you want but adjusting the Z upward does not re-capture the detail lost after shrinking an object.

Hey Paul,
I am not sure that this statement is always true. I think, and we may need to get Brian to verify this, that once you have it captured in a component that you should be able to resize it in any direction x, y, or z and still retain the original detail.

I believe the only time you lose detail is if you shrink it down on your job and copy it into your working model, then create a new component.

We are getting into an area here that delves into how Aspire works behind the scenes. Brian has said right from the beginning that you should make your components as big as possible, then shrink them down to fit in your model. That way they benefit from a larger resolution of the job.

To sum up. If you have a single component, I believe, you can shrink it up and down or along x or y and it will always have the same detail. That is, as long as it remains a component. If you shrink it down and copy it into the working model, you will lose resolution.


I hope my ramblings make some sense,
Tim
:?
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby BrianM » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:33 am

Hi.
As Tim has said above changing the Z value up or down does not result in any loss of z resolution for a component. The original height values are maintained in the component and just a multiplier value is changed as you scale up and down in z.

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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Fleming » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:31 pm

Thanks Tim and Brian,

I re-read Brian's post about about the Aspire Model Structure and understand better about the fact that the original detail is maintained by the component when scaling- really an amazing conceptual design when you think about it!! 8)

One point of clarification - If you distort the component using the height adjustment tool or the new tools in version 3, is the original detail still maintained (or stored within the component) so you can go back or re-shape to the original shape with no loss of detail?

Many thanks,

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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:24 pm

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

If you change a parameter in the properties window you will not lose resolution.

But, and this is the same in the current version and the upcoming version, if you sculpt, distort or bake a component Aspire is having to transfer the data to a working model and then back again. In the current version you see this, in the upcoming version it does it in the background.

In that case, the component will take on it's resolution based on the area it is covering in the current job. So to minimize any loss of resolution, simply scale the component to fit in the entire job before starting those processes. When it turns back into a component it will take on the larger resolution.

Does that make sense?

Paul, please keep in mind that for the vast number of cases that this is overkill. The majority of the time losing that little bit of resolution will not have any affect on the overall job. These are pretty advanced concepts that only apply to a few situations.

Hope this helps,
Tim
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Fleming » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:37 pm

Tim,

That helps a lot! :) You are very kind to try and help with this.

One more question: If you take an object (let's say one that came with Aspire) and expand it larger than the original, then modify it through sculpting or whatever - when you reduce it to the working size (say 50% smaller than the original) what resolution will the modifications inherit- From the original size or the expanded size?? ( or am I totally confused :? )

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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:46 pm

The resolution any component inherits is based on the area of the current job it covers and the model resolution you picked when you started the job.

If you make a small component in the corner of your job it will have a low resolution. If you make a component that covers you entire workpiece or job, it will have a higher resolution.

Does that clear it up?
Tim
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby BrianM » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:28 pm

Distorting a component in Aspire V3 does NOT lose any of the original component quality unless you bake the distorted component. You can go back and keep modifying the distortion envelope as many times as you like and it will still work on the original data. This is extremely powerful, as on many systems applying a number of sequential distortion type edits will quickly make the model unrecognizable.

A typical case would be where you are creating a set of leaves from one master leaf. You can keep taking a copy of each leaf after it is distorted and apply a further distortion to the copy with no loss of quality. In this way you can quickly build a group of leaves which all look different and hence more natural.

You would usually only need to bake the distorted component if you wanted to sculpt it or combine it permanently with other components.


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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Fleming » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:11 pm

Tim, Brian,

Thanks again for the responses - I think I understand enough now to plan my strategy during the design phase. The more I learn about the intricacies of Aspire the more I am blown away by the creative minds that designed it :D

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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby moto633 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:53 pm

This is helping make the wait for 3 even more painful :lol:

Great info Tim

Thnaks,
Nick
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby Turtle49 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:01 pm

moto633 wrote:This is helping make the wait for 3 even more painful :lol:

Great info Tim
Thnaks,
Nick

All part of my master plan.... :twisted:
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V3

Postby moto633 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:21 pm

master beta? :lol:
Sorry I had to
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Re: Reducing component height while retaining its detail - V

Postby nicksilva » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:07 pm

THANK YOU, Tim. This is an excellent technique. It's going to help me a lot.
All the models I use for making the leather embossing plates have to be at 1/8" or less and simply reducing the height
often leads to the loss of detail. This should help me use some I've not been able to use before.
Regards,
Nick
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