rej wrote:how many Chinese machines have you owned xray?
Am not going to take the bait - If you have a specific chinese machine /company to recommend out of the dozens out there, knock yourself out then the OP can make up his mind whether or not he wants to cuts corners and gamble with an offshore outfit to save some $$ or go with a proven domestic manufacturer for a higher price point.
There is a reason why they are cheaper, you know that right ? Same reason I'd recommend Cammaster or Shopbot over a drop shipped asian unit is the same reason I'd recommend a Dewalt or Makita power tool over Harbor Freight, simple precept of "you get what you pay for".
gene has been a long time member of this forum and others. I would take his opinion over someone who has never owned a Chinese machine. I thought maybe you had a bad experience with one.
I don't understand why an American or Canadian machine is so much better if the main parts are the same. I bet you the steppers and servos and most of the drivers if not all of them, are made overseas.
I grant you the service is better. I had a shopbot and the service was great, but the parts were from overseas. its easy to get on a forum and bash other companies. so my opinion is guys should consider all options.
the future is a world market.
rej, you have the perfect right to buy or recommend anything you want, or to trust one member over the other as you see fit, as do I.
Startup asian companies are not known for their quality control, attention to build quality, stocking spare parts or after sales support, North American companies are. I was not about to roll the dice on a purchase like this, never considered it - Does that mean I expect everyone else to follow in my footsteps ? Of course not, I really don't care what others decide to do for themselves but if someone asks, I will tell them the factors involved in my decision, and support and build quality were primary considerations [and yes, though not absolutely necessary, it does help if your support rep can speak understandable English].
CNC can be frustrating enough at times with any outfit, and any machine is prone to wear and malfunctions. Do I want to correspond with someone in China by email or post another "please help me !" thread on cnczone, or do I want stateside based support with guys that will talk to you for hours if necessary on the phone and have well established http forums where you can instantly pick the brains of dozens of experienced, helpful guys ?
Thats a no brainer to me and, once again, if you know of an asian manufacturer which offers similar after sales support, don't keep it to yourself.
Aside from support, as for actual quality, no I do not have 1st hand experience with a china made CNC machine. It is not exactly a hidden secret that the reasons in general they build things so much cheaper is that they make extensive use of:
* slave labor
* inferior materials
* poor/non existent quality control
* pirated/copied components
Go get yourself a $15 right angle grinder from harbor freight, I'll get a $125 Makita from Lowes, we'll see who is the last man standing - You won't get 1 hour on a real job, I'll be going strong for years, and yes I do have 1st hand experience in this regards, I have years ago sworn off the use of any cheap made in china junk tools, I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me and I am not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are much more meticulous with CNC machines.
proof is in the pudding...machine I purchased proves that, period. Take a look at my FB business page to see what has been produced. sale cnc...after sales support, parts, speak perfect english. I run a production shop and wanted a production machine and I had a budget. The hobby guys I can understand they a little shy about buying something from China...
There's at least one american made machine that's lacking. I recently scrapped (with much frustration) an US made machine because the gantry sagged when the router was mid-span of the Y axis. Impossible to do accurate carving with it despite my efforts to fix it.
Reviews I read about it were good, turns out though that none of them were related to v-carving or doing any 3D work. Apparently most were just using it to hog out 2D parts.
Wish I had all that money back...could have paid for Aspire, all my bits and a good supply of wood.
YEAH
I fell for all that advertising blurb too
Have had the machine for 2 years now and hardly made any chips.
Latest news:
An overloaded Y axis wire (hairthin computer wires) burnt out and blew up the control box and 2 stepper motors.
Made in USA = assembled in USA from components made in China
Plug as supplied, impossible to check wire size or pin connection without shredding the plug.
No cheers this time
Wolffie
Cheers
Wolffie
Whatshammacallit
Cut3D, VCarvePro 6.5, Aspire4, PhotoVCarve, Corel Graphics Suite X6
I actually met the guy who owns the company referenced above.
About 6-7 years ago when I decided to buy a cnc router I ordered one from him. He was just getting started, the machines were being built in his garage.
Long story short: got the machine, discovered it sagged/flexed/flopped around with a cheesy Bosch Colt router mounted in it. Don't get me wrong, a Bosch Colt is a useful tool, just not in a CNC router. His place was about a 4 hour drive from my place. I drove the machine back and had a conversation with him concerning the problems. Got my money back. Let's just say he was all about marketing.
On the way back I thought to myself: "This guy is gonna be dangerous if he makes any connections to produce that machine on a national level."
After that experience I built my own machine. Built my second one a few years later using CNC Router Parts stuff. What a difference! Quality parts, good service, things work as advertised. Sort of like Vectric products!
I had one and the coupler that connected the ball screw to the stepper shaft was continually coming loose. I ended up tack welding it. the little control box had to be replaced, the table was way off of flat. once I fixed all the problems, I liked it. I was surprised how much power the little colt router had. but customer service was horrible. but that was several years ago and i'm sure its better now. but for the price of a tabletop from companies I see advertised now, I can get a standup welded frame machine with quality parts from my company.
I think I have narrowed things to 4 choices. They have been metioned on this forum. Roc Tech, Salescnc, Camaster Stinger 1 and Vision. Does anyone have a opinion of the Vision cnc? http://www.visionengravers.com/lp_bing/ ... 20machines I have not found to much info about them and will continue to research this machine.
Thanks for all the help, you have made my hunt for a new machine much easier.
If my guess is right, your comments above. service is not any better.
Thanks again everyone.
Dave
A lot of us here depend on the forums for quick answers. This one is great but also a couple of other forums from the machine manufactures are also great. I think it's very helpful to be able to get answers quick from the fellow users. I for one would not buy a machine from someone that doesn't have a quality forum.
the vision video says up to 10ips. not saying its not true, but i'd like to see that one.
maybe this price is wrong, but 19500.00 for a 25x50? http://www.woodshopnews.com/tools-machi ... -25-series
I know Jamie oxenham has a tabletop techno cnc he loves. I think he said it was around 12000.00
Gc3 wrote:proof is in the pudding...machine I purchased proves that, period. Take a look at my FB business page to see what has been produced. sale cnc...after sales support, parts, speak perfect english. I run a production shop and wanted a production machine and I had a budget. The hobby guys I can understand they a little shy about buying something from China...
"Hobby guys" lol, a tad bit condescending there, don't you think ?
Hobby, business or a combination of the 2 I would not go with an asian machine, thats just me.
Tell ya what, I recommended 3, so far you have recommended nothing save for "buy from China !". Post something perhaps a bit more specific such as brand and contact info, and the OP can consider it or not as he choses.
"Hobby, business or a combination of the 2 I would not go with an asian machine, thats just me."
nice to know you have American made steppers, and rails, and z ballscrew and drivers.
I think the machine you have comes standard with porter cable 2.2 hp router. http://www.ehow.com/facts_7496266_porte ... -made.html
"Headquarters
In 1960 the company moved to Tennessee, which remained the manufacturing base for the company even as it has been acquired by other larger toolmaking entities such as Rockwell and Pentair. However, Black & Decker's purchase of Porter-Cable in 2005, and then the subsequent buyout of Black & Decker by Stanley in 2009, now means that Porter-Cable tools are being made overseas with Mexico or China being the most common origin. The Jackson, Tenn., plant now functions primarily as a distribution center and currently employs over 3,000 people."
not tying to be argumentative, just stating facts.
OK! The price of a vision takes it out of the running.
I just received some information about the Stinger 1 that I really like. That is the location and use of a rotary lath option on a Camaster. Monday I will receive some quotes and I will go from there.
There are things I like about all 3 machines, so I think it will be a win win for me.
Thanks everyone.
Dave
