Reselling VectorArt 3D models

Post by **doglaw** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:45 pm

I just recently got my web site published and started thinking about how nice it would be - to be able to integrate the VectorArt 3D models into my site as part of my product offering (not the files/models - but the resulting carving.) I want my customers to be able to browse through all the VectorArt models that I can cut for them. I know I can download a PDF catalog that illustrates all the models - which is really a nice way to present the models to them. My only concern is that the current PDF is heavily "branded" VectorArt 3D and I would prefer that my customers do not know who my supplier is. What I don't want my customers to be able to do is to do their own investigation into how much I may be charging them for the models. If they see that I'm buying the models from VectorArt 3D - whats to stop them from going to the VectorArt 3D website and seeing my costs?

My question is really directed at the VectorArt 3D team. Would you guys have any objection to creating a PDF catalog that doesn't have any reference to VectorArt 3D ? If this doesn't work, in the alternative, could you produce a catalog where maybe the VectorArt 3D branding is more subdude. I like your models and I believe they will help me sell more of my product -- which translates into more product sales for you. Can you help me?

Thanks
Doug
www.tradient.com

Post by **tmerrill** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:38 pm

Doug,

I am interested in James' response to you, but here is another option that I have done in a 3 ring binder format.

Use the Save preview feature and then print out in photo quality, or process the .jpg's some more to make them suitable for website presentation. You can also take pictures of the woods you use and use these pictures to put the preview carving on.

Attached are a few examples.

Tim

Post by **doglaw** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:57 pm

Tim:

Thanks for the reply.

I started down the path of downing loading the viewer files and saving the preview like you suggest. After doing about 30 (which I might add did look very nice) I decided that it would be a lot easier to pose the question to the VectorArt 3D team to provide a PDF for those who want to market their models. Ha!

What you did with marketing the clock is excellent!

Doug

Post by **JamesB** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:13 pm

Hi Doug, Tim, this is something we have been thinking about for a while (its on my list... along with a million other things). We are looking at a couple of ways we might approach it although we would always need at least a (C)Copyright Vector Art 3D, Inc. somewhere on each page our images are used. One option we considered is unbranded web pages that we would host but customers could link to. The other would be as you say a more subtley branded PDF, another option would be to let customers download the images of the parts in a zip file to use in print or web media. I would be interested in your feedback and others. Then we can make a decision from there and see what our technical options are with our web guys. Let me know what you think, either here or by email to jab(at)carve3d(dot)com. I am also interested in other ideas and suggestions as we hope to do more later in the summer and going into the end of the year with the website and resources on it.

Thanks, James

Post by **doglaw** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:15 am

James:

A couple of thoughts on the catalog and protecting VectorArt 3d's intellectual property rights.

1. I do think this is a worthwhile effort for VectorArt 3D. Most companies pay tons of money each year in advertising to get their products in front of would-be consumers. This is a very good way to extend your advertising/sales reach with little effort and little expense. If I was your marketing or sales manager, it would only take me less than 2 seconds to decide this one. Just consider every CNC shop who purchases your models as a potential salesmen and marketing consultant for VectorArt 3D who works for free. VectorArt 3D has a potential gold-mine here for advertising. Don't over analyze it.

2. I, personally, would be willing, in exchange for an "unmarked and unbranded" catalog, sign some kind of an agreement with you. Something that makes you feel comfortable that I'm not reselling your files and that I won't duplicate your designs, or use the images in an inappropriate way. I would think this would be your best way to protect your intellectual property rights.

3. In my business, I do create 3D reliefs for clients. But, I would much rather purchase the model, then re-create it. I think most people would agree that your pricing for most items is pretty reasonable. I typically only create reliefs when: 1 - can't find a model and 2 - can't afford the time it takes someone else to do it.

I hope this helps.

Doug

Post by **CRFultz** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:08 am

JamesB wrote:Hi Doug, Tim, this is something we have been thinking about for a while (its on my list... along with a million other things). We are looking at a couple of ways we might approach it although we would always need at least a (C)Copyright Vector Art 3D, Inc. somewhere on each page our images are used. One option we considered is unbranded web pages that we would host but customers could link to. The other would be as you say a more subtley branded PDF, another option would be to let customers download the images of the parts in a zip file to use in print or web media. I would be interested in your feedback and others. Then we can make a decision from there and see what our technical options are with our web guys. Let me know what you think, either here or by email to jab(at)carve3d(dot)com. I am also interested in other ideas and suggestions as we hope to do more later in the summer and going into the end of the year with the website and resources on it.

Thanks, James

James I have all of your models in my 3 ring binder which i leave with a customer for a few days. I have 3 of these.
It includes the 2D collections along with a large assortment of other graphics that I've pick up along the way.
i felt it was necessary to let the customer browse at there leisure without any commits from me.

All the 3D images were snatched from the PDf from your website. Minus any mention of where I might buy them from.
They are rearranged along side pictures of completed work. I don't want to violate any copyright laws...and i will remove them from the Binder if you feel I need to.

i don't feel a link will suit my purpose. It's not a option to tell someone to go to www dot something or other when they may not even own a computer. For me to be there with my laptop is also not possible....(I work way to many hours

)

as you can see a printed format is my only solution.....If I put a copyright symbol on each image, would that be acceptable?

There are quite a few hours in this but i want it legal...what do you suggest.

Chuck

Post by **JamesB** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:32 pm

Maybe my post was misleading. We are very much of the opinion that we want to make it easy for our customers to show their customers what the choice of models is. That is why we have the PDF and the Viewer. What I was really asking was feedback from everyone as to what they would find the most useful in terms of the follwoing ideas or if anyone has other suggestions of what we could do:

1 A non branded (or minimally branded) PDF similar to what we have now.

2 Non branded web pages which you could link to from your website, to let your customers browse the current collection on-line without them knowing where you buy the models.

3 A place where you can download the whole collection as images which you can use to make your own print media or webpages.

So let me know what you think of these ideas and if you like them all, your preference of order to work on them?

One other idea is for us to offer a CD or DVD with all the Viewer files on them to save you downloading them - there would probably be an admin/shipping cost for this ($10-$15)?

Chuck - all that we would ask you to do is on each page where you use any of our images that you this line of text: "Some images (C)Copyright Vector Art 3D, Inc. "
This can be in the footer and does not need to be too prominent. From your response I see your preference would be printed matter to show your customers.

Obviously any material, text, images etc. on our website or otherwise supplied is subject to the license agreement : http://www.vectorart3d.com/license

So I hope this clarifies - anyone who would use any of these tools please chime in and let me know what you think and then next week I will talk to our web-experts and start to work on putting some of them in place.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Post by **doglaw** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:53 pm

James:

I'll chime in. Of the 3, I like the idea of a non-branded PDF the best; followed by a place to download images (or on disk).

Thanks again

Doug

Post by **tmerrill** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:50 pm

James,

Your option #3 is best for my situation.

Tony/Brian,

Please consider adding to the wish list the ability to add a watermark or single line of text to the .jpg's created when you save preview in all your programs. I know it can be done with a 3rd program, but this would make it easier should we want to use the preview pictures in a catalog or similar.

Thanks to all,

Tim

Post by **Thkoutsidthebox** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm

I had intended doing what chuck is doing when I get that far in my business startup. (Sorry for the long winded post.)

1) My priority would be your option to make available the images for download as I was going to have to screen capture them somehow to use them. Personally I would not prioritise your .pdf because I will have to do one myself anyway with my own trademarks, logo, prices and literature etc included. I would also include the images on my own company website. I won't say they're my designs, but I wont say otherwise unless asked.

(My customers wont be buying directly from you anyway.)
I assumed as you are not suppliers of the end carvings, and could generally be viewed as suppling to business, this would be ok and didn't originally think about putting in your copyright notice.

2) As I understand it, (and I could be wrong), you supply the carving files, and I am your customer. I am aware of your copyright from my purchase of the files, and if I was to resell the files I would be infringing that copyright. But my customer (Once I dont sell him the files) who only receives wood carvings does not need to be aware of your copyright as he'll never receive the files.

Of course if the graphic image designs are copyrighted aswell (Which I'm guessing now they are.) then thats different. Copyrighted images cannot be reproduced without your permission. But I think in the context of selling to 'the middle man' which I am so to speak, that you need to give permission to reproduce the images without me having to inform my customer of information on where I purchased them and what price I purchased them for.

3) I would like to provide a general disclaimer such as:

"All images and designs are copyright and cannot be reproduced without permission. Details of a specific image licence holder can be provided upon request by 'Breadboard Ltd' ".

I would have permission to reproduce, any of my customers who don't know about you wont! And I'm guessing that most customers wont ask who my supplier of each image is.

4) To get permission to reproduce the images I would be willing to have to write to you asking for permission, and to sign a reasonable disclaimer (Although I think this is unnescessary since I know the rules from buying the files). I also believe that you should state something like "The end customer of the carved designs will be informed that they are copyright", but without actually defining the specific wording, because I know that I personally would like to phrase it somewhat like the credit card companies small print, so that nobody even reads it!

Finally,

5) I really see major issues with drawing attention to my suppliers in any way, and my purchase prices.

A subtle disclaimer mentioning 'Copyright of VectorArt3D' would result in unnessesary and awkward questions, not to mention making my competitors blatently aware of my suppliers I'm suddenly having visions of my past few years of business startup and hard work, and hard earned knowledge, going to waste, because the first time I start up my website, my long established and multi million turnover competitors will undercut me by subsidising my niche of their overall business with their other products, and I'll be unemployed.

No extra sales for you because I would have been supplying their (My) customer anyway, but no business for me! Seriously! I have no problem with competition but like any startup I have many things to consider and worry about. Living on the street after a year because I was squashed by the big boys (who are doing fine anyway without my business idea) is a serious concern. Im not joking. I will not tell my competitors who my suppliers are when Im only starting out. If you say I have to, then I have to get working quickly on my own models and/or find a different supplier. ( I like you and love your models, please dont make me have to do that

)

Really finally:

6) I also always thought that reliefs would have my largest markup, and if my customer knows the details of that, then again I'll be forced to use more alternative ways of providing relief products, and would again end up buying less of your models.

That'd result in more computer work, higher production costs, and less turnover for me.
Higher prices for my customers.
And less sales for you.
Everyone loses.

Im sure there's some way to make everyone happy.

I would be happy to watermark the images in CorelDraw, and visually alter them with a semi transparent watermark saying 'COPYRIGHT' so they cant be screencaptured or photocopied.

Post by **GripUs** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm

James,
You asked for 2 cents worth but you may offer me change. My principle business is making pistol grips but I have purchased a couple of your files for other projects and hope to grow that aspect of my business. My first preference would be a CD from which I could produce a catalog from which the customer could choose which design(s) they wanted. It will be some time yet before I put anything like that on m website since I don't have time to maintain it now. Some of the 2D artwork producers furnish a low resolution thumbnail for such purposes so it can't easily be scanned/downloaded and used without a lot of work. I believe the idea of a watermark over the image is a good idea or possibly the words "SAMPLE ONLY" or something to that effect. I am not much worried about my customers seeing the source of my files because they don't have CNC machines and are certainly not going to purchase one for a single project. If they did, they would be my competitors and since a simple Google search shows only two major suppliers of 3D files they would already know about you.

Any way you choose to do it is fine by me just as long as you keep producing them. I sometimes believe my search for new customers is to allow me to buy more files. Just like my producing a new model grip, naturally, requires me to buy a new pistol to try them on.

Regards,

Joe

Post by **JamesB** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:58 pm

This is good and useful info - thanks. Anyone else feel free to chime in. I am off to the AWFS show tomorrow and Friday - when I get back next week I will take a look through everything and put some things into operation. As I say anyone else who uses our files or is considering it feel free to add your 2cents (or more). Thanks,
James

Post by **IYWD** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:48 pm

No matter which option, my hope is that it will be easy to update, since there are new models added every month. I would think a combination of the pdf and a web link would work well. For those that want to make a printable catalog and/or those that don't have a website, they could use the pdf. And for those that do have a website, having a link to view available models would be ideal. m2c

IYWD

Post by **Thkoutsidthebox** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:08 pm

JamesB wrote: - when I get back next week I will take a look through everything and put some things into operation.

Any update on this yet James, I've been holding off on buying until I knew what was happening? Thanks.

Post by **JamesB** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:09 am

Breadboard, sorry for the delay in feedback, since I returned from my trip I have been slammed with contract work and catching up with "stuff". I still have to email our web guys and discuss this with my business partner but most likely is we will end up with an unbranded but copyrighted PDF for download and print and we will also create a webpage which you can link to which is also unbranded and can hopefully be embedded in your own web page. We may also try offer some other options too but they are most likely. I hope to start the process tomorrow to move these things along but they are likely to be a number of weeks before they are implemented purely down to being very busy... Thanks for your interest in this I had not forgotten. Cheers,
James