Can I wrap on a 4th axis machine?

[Woodmolds]

How do I wrap for a fourth axis machine?

WinCNC controller.

Thanks, Tony

[gravirozo]

tony

recently nick had same issue... jim mc grew using also wincnc control...

viktor

[Woodmolds]

There just doesn't seem to be much info forthcoming about this subject(the idiosyncrasies). Most of the questions I've posted about this on other forums receive lukewarm responses.

I have Aspire and would rather do this with it, if possible, but I can't seem to get any answers. I also have Rhino and Rhinocam and can't seem to get any discussion on answers on using it either.

Am I not wording my questions correctly?

Thanks, Tony

[moto633]

Tony what kind of router do you have?

Alot of it has to do with the postprocessor for your specific router.

I am just getting started with the whole rotary thing!!

Nick

[Woodmolds]

"Tony what kind of router do you have?"

Well the good news is I don't own the router(s).
The bad news is I'm mostly responsible for programming and running two 48" X 96" "Precision Automated Equipment" routers, both with 5HP spindle, 6 tool ATC's, vacuum tables, both have digitizing probes and one with a fourth axis on the 96" side. Sort of a bulk buy/prospective dealer deal!

The bad news is the router company(PAE) turned out to be hit and run, owned by some apparently unscrupulous people.
The good news is parts are mostly off the shelf and they use WinCNC controllers and have steel frames.

The router with the fourth axis belongs to one of our customers, the other one to my boss. I got about three days training on ours(from a very sharp tech guy), but was not involved with training on the other machine. I have basic understanding of the machines or know just enough to be dangerous in the case of the fourth axis. I have been running our machine for about 18 months, but only recently needed to get up to speed on the fourth axis. We use Aspire for 99% of our work, but I have access to Rhino & Rhinocam on the other machine for fourth axis work. I can see where it would be sooooo much easier if I could use wrapping in Aspire for the round work. Both owners look to me to answer any questions/solve problems they have. The good part there is I do 95% of the router work we do at my day job and 99% of the work for the other guy. Meaning I don't have to explain a lot to them, just do it!

I have been using computers and doing CAD drawings for over twenty-five years, so I'm not intimidated by them. The problem on the fourth axis is I'm only asked to help when there is a project and a deadline. I'm having to learn Rhino and Rhinocam at the same time, which is okay, but it takes time, which we don't have.

The fourth axis machine using Rhinocam seems to be setup to use the basic WinCNC-ATC post processor, I don't know if it's been modified. I did have to modify the max feed rate to get the B axis feed to run fast enough to be useful. And since have learned why. (degrees vs ipm)

I understand the principle of wrapping and think it would be so easy if I could figure out how to run it on the fourth axis machine. It seems so simple, I feel I'm missing something very simple to achieve my goals and somewhat frustrated at not being able to figure it out.

Nick, Thanks for letting me "bend your ear", Tony

[moto633]

Tony I wish I had something insightful to say to help you out but I am just getting my feet wet with my rotary!!

I just learned about the feed rate needing to be really high as well for it to work correctly.

I only use aspire so I would be no help with the rhino stuff either sorry!
I don't think there is a lot of info out yet on this type of work.

You might check on the camheads forum there are a few guys over there with a good bit of knowledge!

don't mind the ear chewin!!! I'm real bad about that in person!!
Nick

[Woodmolds]

Nick,
I posted on camheads(also CNC Zone) about a week ago in hopes Jim or Guy would reply. I knew the Camaster runs WinCNC also. It was suggested I post to CNC Zone or Rhinocam forum. Guy did reply, but when I answered his questions, I didn't get a follow up answer or suggestions. So I'm back to trial & error. Slow go, but at least I won't forget how I got there, when I get it resolved.

Thanks, Tony

[gravirozo]

tony

regardless your router brand, or controller brand...
if you have controlled 4 phisical axis, like X Y Z and (A or B) then you can wrap...

sometime x or y driven by two motor, they have also 4 axis, they can not...

the wrapping is simply transferring X or Y to A or B axis...

viktor

the reason i cited the above posts because they are using wincnc postprocessor... and they have all settings you might need..
rhinocam makes differently the rotary work.. theirs is not simply wrapping... if you have a close timeline to finish, and you use 90 percent for your work aspire, then i think use aspire for this work... cad-cam might works better on specified parts, like they have undercuts, but those programs has more learningcurve too..

[Woodmolds]

Viktor,

Yes, I have full 4 axis X, Y(2 motors), Z, & B (5 motors total)

I tried using the wrapping and using a text editor to change X to B, but inchs to degrees did not work.
I know there should be a way to do this and I'm sure I'll kick myself for not knowing when I see how simple it is.

Thanks, Tony

[gravirozo]

tony

beside G51 code a lot thing is very similar in wincnc... i just can chasing on the web, i don't have wincnc...
when i tried to understand the wrapping, as these programs are using it came up, by artsoft, i can scaling A or B axis using the G51 command...

i fund a page

http://cncrouters.org/Page_44.htm
it is about wincnc codes

it says the scaling is G51... i did not read trough the page... but this is the code you need to use...
this page says the syntax, that u can use..


also i'm sure tony or someone from vectric could help you.. they wrote already several hundred of postprocessor, so i think yours wont be different...

with an example...
you wrap on 10 inch dia... that will be 31.415 inch long (this is your Y measurement of your drawing)....

if your controller expect angles, it will does mean 360 (full circle) per 31.415 (length of Y)

360/31.415= 11.45949387

this is the scaling number...

in mach
it will looking
G51 A11.459

this is what you can put manually in the g-code...

on the end need G50 turning off the scaling


also i'm sure in wincnc need some settings to proper preview, just like in mach...

but again, mach and wincnc very close... so i guess vectric or some user with wincnc will describe it you... and help you
i can't imagine you would be left behind with this.. jim and nick using wincnc controller and they will wrap with...

viktor

[rrrevels]

I don't whether you have looked at Randall's tutorial on wrapping but it is well worth the time.

http://www.222artisans.com/Rotary/RotaryYaxis.html

Russ

[cabnet636]

tony it was good to meet you in memphis, give me a call and i will help you,

jim 803 518 2074

[Woodmolds]

Thank Jim,
I didn't meet you in Memphis, but I'll take you up on the offer to call you. I'll tomorrow am.

Thanks, Tony

[cabnet636]

somebody had a shirt on that said woodmolds!! met a lot of people here on the forum yet for the first time face to face

give me a call