Help For Mach 3 Issue

Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby Rik » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:43 pm

Not sure if this belongs here, but. After a very long time, I have finally loaded Mach3 and got the axis to move, YEAH !!!!
What I need help with is my spindle configuration. The controller card I have has connections for it. My confusion starts with Mach 3's spindle section.
It does not use any pulleys?. So, does the G code for a project start it up and stop it and does it also set the speed?
If this doesn't make sense you can understand my confusion and hesitance to do anything more to configure my machine. I want to begin using
my machine but this has got me flummoxed! HELP :?
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby TReischl » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:33 am

First, what do you have for a spindle?

If you are using something like a router, the software will produce the M03 code which will be read by Mach 3. Mach 3 then outputs a signal to trigger a relay turning on the router/spindle. It will also produce the M5 at the end of the program to turn off the spindle. So, you need to have a relay and it has to be wired up to your control.

I have never done a speed controlled spindle via Mach 3, so if that is what you have, I am not any help.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby PaulRowntree » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:35 am

Hi Rik
You are going to have to give a bit more information. Vectric+Mach3 can control the spindle on/off, and the speed, if the spindle is hooked up correctly and completely.

I use on/off control. My post-processor adds a 'M03' command at the start, 'M05' at the end to turn it on/off. My interface is a Gecko G540, which has 2 lines available for this sort of thing. I tell Mach3 which control line to treat as spindle control line, then wire up a solid-state relay to the G540 output pin. The SSR is a switch that is in-line with the 120 Vac that powers my router. I set Mach3 to wait 5 seconds after starting the router before moving th X-Y-Z to get it all up to speed. This works well, but it ignores the speed settings that Vectric provides. SSRs cost about $15-$25, and are very reliable.

Full spindle control could be a bit more complicated, but is more powerful. Someone with direct experience will have to discuss this.

Cheers!
Paul Rowntree
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby zeeway » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:29 am

If you are new to all this, I would suggest you create your g-code file from your Vectric software, then load it into Mach 3. Then after setting zero for your machine, turn on your spindle manually, and then press the start button on Mach 3.

After you have that comfortably in hand, you could go back and do the relay for your spindle control.

Angie
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby Rik » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:03 pm

My set up is what I think is most common, that is, I have the controller connected to a p.c. that has Mach 3 and V Carve Pro, plus some 3d printer software.
The spindle motor I have is not a router. It is a 12 vdc. 300w motor, variable speed from 0-12,000 R.P.M. Torque is rated at 230mNm. can anybody convert that to something normal?
According to the Chinese controller card literature it relay controlled on the card. More can be found at Stepperonline.
With this information, how can I run a test? Does the code generated by V Carve start and stop the motor? Do I have to make a sample simple shape in V Carve and run it as a test session?
Am I stressing out too much here.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby Hermie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:40 pm

We would need more information, you say it is variable speed, is the speed control on the spindle or is it supposed to be controlled from Mach?

you say the motor is controlled by a relay, which means it an on/ off only as the speed cannot be controlled thru a relay

The pulleys are for letting Mach know what speed range to use when you are using a 0 to 5 or 10 volt signal, so you can ignore them if you have on/off.

If you want to control the speed thru Mach you wold need a DC controller and yes the postprocessor has an M call that will at the start and stop the spindle.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby glenninvb » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:56 pm

Rik,
Like TR asked, what type spindle, VFD drive or router?, what type B/O board? ....... Here is a couple videos showing the basics of each
The B/O board in the VFD setup is just a typical w/ analog output
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kenq7ohZ-TM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PQq2BMJltQ
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby Rik » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:48 pm

4_Axis_TB6600_CNC_Driver_Board_Users_Manual.pdf
(1.75 MiB) Downloaded 509 times

When I purchased this in its original form it came with : from the mfg's spec sheet;
a variable 4A-12-48VDC power supply, speed 3000-12,000 r.p.m.
Transfer rates (@12V- 3000, @24V- 6000, @36V-9000, @48V-12,000 r.p.m.'s),
and a speed control potentiometer which plugged into the power supply's circuit board.
I do not need to use a B/O board with this controller board. This board requires not more than 36VDC, power supply.
So I have the p.c. connected to the TB6600 control board which has the X, Y, Z, axis, the spindle and the power supply.
I have movement on all axis tuned and tested. I have yet to see the spindle motor run!. This is where my dilemma is.
How is the spindle controlled. I'd hate to start a session and find the spindle failed to start.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby TReischl » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:18 pm

One thing you can do in Mach to test the spindle is use MDI (manual data input).

You would key in a command like M03, hit enter and see if your spindle starts up. If it does, then look in your cnc code near the beginning and see if an M03 is in there.

An M05 should be near the end of the code.

Now, and here comes a plug. . . . .when you are getting comfortable check out Ger21's Screenset 2010. It has little things like an icon to turn the spindle on and off. Provides the ability to do tool setting with and referencing so you do not have to manually reference each tool, loads of great stuff. And very, very inexpensive, like $20. Just google Screenset 2010 and you will find his site. He is also a moderator on the CNCZone and is a member here.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby ger21 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:08 am

Do you have any documentation for the spindle and it's power supply?
Do you have the pot wired to the power supply?
If you use the pot, then Mach3 will not control the rpm of the spindle. I'm guessing that the power supply needs a 0-5V signal to control the rpm. Looks like your board can output 0-10V. I think you can use resistors to reduce it to o-5V.
In Mach3, you'd configure the spindle to use PWM. Looks like it would use pin1 from the manual you posted.
Without seeing some documentation, I can't really tell you how it would be turned on and off.
If you don't know a fair bit about electronics, setting this up may be a bit tricky.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby glenninvb » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:23 pm

Sorry, didn't see your post about the DC spindle and PWM control.
Anyway yes it should be fully controllable by Mach if wired correctly and config. correctly.
The power supply seems under rated for a 300w motor at full load, was this a kit sold together?

Also, I would consider using an optional external relay board to isolate the AC switching power supply from the 4axis controller board if wired that way?
Hopefully you've got good documentation
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby Rik » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:46 pm

Unfortunately I do not, have documentation with the spindle and power supply. I contacted the seller but he did not have it either.
So, Mach 3 should control it, good, but just how could I test that condition?
I do not have command of G code or electronics so I'm a bit compromised in these ways. Is there a G code script I can use?
The best I can do is show a schematic I drew up in Auto Cad 2000 to graphically show how it's all wired up.
NEW 4 AXIS CONTROLLER.pdf
(108.77 KiB) Downloaded 181 times

This is my controller as it sits now. As you can see a potentiometer is not wired in, because I thought the controller card did that.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby glenninvb » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:45 pm

If the schematic your showing has the motor wired directly to the VFD 0-10v output, I think you have serious issues! If its a typical analog output?
The VDF (variable frequency drive) output is used to supply a control signal. I believe you will need a PWM motor speed control and another or larger power supply capable of running the 300w motor at full load. (6.25A @ 48v) These links may help, and show typical wiring and Mach3 config.

I'm not familiar with your setup, I have an AC servo system ...... but just trying to help, maybe someone here is more qualified? You may want to call Automation Tech. (below) and see what you need and get advice?

Here is doc. for typical PWM DC motor speed control

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... asheet.pdf
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/about-us

http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Controlle ... YWZHRS5DYB
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby ger21 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:38 am

As the previous poster said, you have the spindle wired very wrong.

If you have a spindle like this one:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... ck-kl-300a

Then you'll need a board like this one to control the rpm from Mach3:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.co ... controller

I believe that the pot that you have is meant to be wired into the power supply to regulate the voltage going to the spindle. You'd need a separate power supply to do that.
Using the board above is a much simpler solution.
You would NOT use the VFD outputs on your driver board, you'd use a regular output to send the PWM signal to the speed control board.
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Re: Help For Mach 3 Issue

Postby martin54 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:01 am

Not trying to be negative & I am all for people asking & receiving help but there are some things you just shouldn't be playing about with if you have no idea what you are doing. Can't you find someone locally with an understanding of electrics/electronics that can assist you.
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