Indexer Wizards version 2.0 Now Available

[rgoldner]

As long as the XY grape vine runs on the diagonal it can be wrapped.

That is interesting. Do you mean a 3D grape vine that stands proud of the surrounding area or a vee carved grape vine, into an existing surface?

Greg

Either one would work. The one that stands proud would be done in Aspire and the other in VCarvePro. Of course, if you have Aspire they could both be done in Aspire.

The material size would be set so that its width is the length of your cylinder and its height is the circumference. In other words the area of the surface of the cylinder is set as the area of the material. Therefore, when the design is wrapped around the cylinder the material takes up all of the cylinder's surface area. I don't know if I'm making myself clear.

The actual design (the grape vine) is drawn on the diagonal. When it is wrapped around the cylinder it actually starts at one end of the cylinder and spirals around the cylinder to the other end.

Here's another way of looking at it. Take a 8.5" X 11" piece of paper and draw a line diagonally from one corner to the other. Wrap that piece of paper around a cylinder (or just use some scotch tape to turn it into a cylinder) that is 2.705" in diameter and 11" long. You will see that the line on the paper spirals up the cylinder and that the paper completely covers the surface of the cylinder. Anything that is drawn on the paper (or carved using Aspire or VCarvePro) is essentially transferred to the surface of the cylinder.

Let me know if this is clear or if I just muddied the water.

[Greolt]

Yeah I understand that.

It was the bit about wrapping a 3D model, that stands proud of the surrounding area, more than once around that cylinder, in a spiral pattern.

Wrapping a toolpath that cuts below a given surface, more than one time around a cylinder is easy. As you say just angle the toolpath. Even Wrapper does that.

Doing the same with a 3D toolpath that leaves the finished model proud of the surface is quite another.

If you are doing that I would be interested in seeing it.

Greg

[rgoldner]

Yeah I understand that.

It was the bit about wrapping a 3D model, that stands proud of the surrounding area, more than once around that cylinder, in a spiral pattern.

Wrapping a toolpath that cuts below a given surface, more than one time around a cylinder is easy. As you say just angle the toolpath. Even Wrapper does that.

Doing the same with a 3D toolpath that leaves the finished model proud of the surface is quite another.

If you are doing that I would be interested in seeing it.

Greg

Think about it for awhile. It's the exact same process. I'll see if I can make an example model in Aspire and cut it. I have barely started to use Aspire so it might take a little time for me to come up with something.

Ahh, I think I just realized where you think the problem is. With a 3D model you are cutting away everything except the proud area while with a 2D model you are cutting away the model area. The column I cut showing the fleur de Lee (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) actually had the background cut away. Aspire did it automatically. You might want to take another look at the column and the Aspire model in the first post in this thread.

[moto633]

This looks great!
Can you give me a clue as to what type of indexer I could use for this?
I have a 4x8 router that runs on Mach and would love to figure out how and what type of indexer would be resonable to work with?
If I can figure out the hardware..... my $$$ will be there for your Wizard!!
Any help would be great!
Thanks,
Nick

[rgoldner]

This looks great!
Can you give me a clue as to what type of indexer I could use for this?
I have a 4x8 router that runs on Mach and would love to figure out how and what type of indexer would be resonable to work with?
If I can figure out the hardware..... my $$$ will be there for your Wizard!!
Any help would be great!
Thanks,
Nick

Send me an email (rgoldner AT iname DOT com) requesting information on the rotary axis and I'll send you back some info and about 20 pictures showing how I built mine. Total codt was around $350 including the stepper motor, stepper drive (Gecko) and other assorted parts.

[Greolt]

Think about it for awhile. It's the exact same process. I'll see if I can make an example model in Aspire and cut it. I have barely started to use Aspire so it might take a little time for me to come up with something.

Ahh, I think I just realized where you think the problem is. With a 3D model you are cutting away everything except the proud area while with a 2D model you are cutting away the model area. The column I cut showing the fleur de Lee (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) actually had the background cut away. Aspire did it automatically. You might want to take another look at the column and the Aspire model in the first post in this thread.

My mistake I think.

I presumed more than you intended when you said the model must be angled. The 'fleur de Lee" is just a simple one time wrap. That is quite simple.

I mistakenly thought that you are wrapping a model more than one 360 degree instance.

For an example of what I thought you meant look at the pic. In this case the text is angled and wrapped several times around the job.

Right now a job is running on my router where I have wrapped a 3D model in a similar manner to the text shown below. Have to see if it comes out right.

Greg

.

[rgoldner]

Think about it for awhile. It's the exact same process. I'll see if I can make an example model in Aspire and cut it. I have barely started to use Aspire so it might take a little time for me to come up with something.

Ahh, I think I just realized where you think the problem is. With a 3D model you are cutting away everything except the proud area while with a 2D model you are cutting away the model area. The column I cut showing the fleur de Lee (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) actually had the background cut away. Aspire did it automatically. You might want to take another look at the column and the Aspire model in the first post in this thread.

My mistake I think.

I presumed more than you intended when you said the model must be angled. The 'fleur de Lee" is just a simple one time wrap. That is quite simple.

I mistakenly thought that you are wrapping a model more than one 360 degree instance.

For an example of what I thought you meant look at the pic. In this case the text is angled and wrapped several times around the job.

Right now a job is running on my router where I have wrapped a 3D model in a similar manner to the text shown below. Have to see if it comes out right.

Greg

.

I think you may be right. However, I believe I could get the same effect by cutting the model into multiple bands where each band goes around the model 360 degrees and the bands are stacked. Interesting to think about.

This has been an interesting conversation. You have given me a lot to think about.

Thanks!

[cabnet636]

we are definantly getting closer, these machines are not difficult i have one that will be ready in october bill joey and paul at camaster have built them for years, the software has been the stumbling block, recently several other machine companies have got on board and begun to copy the sidewinder/recoil concept of lathes

jim

[Woodmolds]

I also would be interested in a wizard to work with WinCNC.
Please keep me abreast of any developments.

Tony

[Greolt]

I also would be interested in a wizard to work with WinCNC.
Please keep me abreast of any developments.

Tony

Don't want to drag this thread off too much but there is a stand alone program the shopbotters use called "Virtual Indexer Tool" or something like that.

It does a very similar range of projects to Rich's plugin but being stand alone it does not depend on Mach or WinCNC etc

The only issue of course is that it only puts out shopbot code not gcode. I have no idea who wrote it but maybe they could be convinced to make it produce gcode as an option.

Any shobotters reading this know who wrote or owns that program? Could be a great cross platform tool.

Or maybe Rich could take the concept and redo his plugin as a stand alone program.

Greg

[rgoldner]

I also would be interested in a wizard to work with WinCNC.
Please keep me abreast of any developments.

Tony

Don't want to drag this thread off too much but there is a stand alone program the shopbotters use called "Virtual Indexer Tool" or something like that.

It does a very similar range of projects to Rich's plugin but being stand alone it does not depend on Mach or WinCNC etc

The only issue of course is that it only puts out shopbot code not gcode. I have no idea who wrote it but maybe they could be convinced to make it produce gcode as an option.

Any shobotters reading this know who wrote or owns that program? Could be a great cross platform tool.

Or maybe Rich could take the concept and redo his plugin as a stand alone program.

Greg

Actually, my Indexer Wizards is a stand-alone program. The problem is that the program uses a Mach3 macro that I wrote in order to wrap XY plane gcode around a cylinder. I'm not currently aware of any other software controller that has the feature to swap axis as Mach3 does.

[Greolt]

Actually, my Indexer Wizards is a stand-alone program. The problem is that the program uses a Mach3 macro that I wrote in order to wrap XY plane gcode around a cylinder. I'm not currently aware of any other software controller that has the feature to swap axis as Mach3 does.

OK I was presuming it was a wizard in much the same way as the other Mach wizards are and operated within Mach.

Then why not have it use axis designations as they should be. Call an A an A.

The standard gcode could be used in any or most controllers.

I know you have talked about arcs but I really think you are overestimating their importance when in a rotary axis environment.

Up until recently Vcarve Pro did not even produce arcs. It only now puts out arcs in pure 2D toolpaths.

With Vee carving and 3D work all moves are segments.

I am having a hard time thinking of an example of rotary axis work (on a router) where I would want or care if arcs were used.

You mentioned fonts as being an issue. Arcs could only come into play if you were using 2D toolpath for the font. Not Vee Carving. And would I care in that situation, if it were segments?.... NO.


Think about it. Your program would move into a much larger potential market.

Greg

[rgoldner]

Actually, my Indexer Wizards is a stand-alone program. The problem is that the program uses a Mach3 macro that I wrote in order to wrap XY plane gcode around a cylinder. I'm not currently aware of any other software controller that has the feature to swap axis as Mach3 does.

OK I was presuming it was a wizard in much the same way as the other Mach wizards are and operated within Mach.

Then why not have it use axis designations as they should be. Call an A an A.

The standard gcode could be used in any or most controllers.

I know you have talked about arcs but I really think you are overestimating their importance when in a rotary axis environment.

Up until recently Vcarve Pro did not even produce arcs. It only now puts out arcs in pure 2D toolpaths.

With Vee carving and 3D work all moves are segments.

I am having a hard time thinking of an example of rotary axis work (on a router) where I would want or care if arcs were used.

You mentioned fonts as being an issue. Arcs could only come into play if you were using 2D toolpath for the font. Not Vee Carving. And would I care in that situation, if it were segments?.... NO.


Think about it. Your program would move into a much larger potential market.

Greg

I think you may be missing my point. Arcs or no arcs is not the problem. The interesting thing about the way I handle the wrapping is that I don't change the gcode. I don't even look at it. Any gcode for the XY plane will work and be successfully wrapped. The gcode can be 3D, 2D it doesn't matter. It just works. The user doesn't have to know if his gcode uses arcs or not. There are many users who don't understand all of this stuff, they just want to wrap their code.

[moto633]

Rich you are right as far as my needs. I don't care how it works as long as it does what is intended. That is why I am not writing programs.......I'm a wood worker

I found an old lathe on Craigs list that I am going to try to fit a stepper on and bleed you for all the info I can in the next month or so.
Thanks for the info/pics!!!!
Nick

[cabnet636]

so we just change the post proccessor in vectric to read a instead of y ?

jim