Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:52 pm

So far I'm just trying out the Tutorial files on my machine. This is a factory built 12 x 24 inch servo router, driven off the serial port with a DeskCNC controller board and the matching Servo driver boards.

Second, this is not my first CNC machine. The first was a PlasmaCAM, got tired of the metal dust. Second was one I did converting over a Mill Drill to a stepper system, again using DeskCNC but with Gecko driver boards. Sold because I really wanted a router and went with the factory built one from IM Service. PS. I am also a master electrician, specialized in control wiring.

Ok, I will spare you all the details, but I have been jumping through hoops for the people who made and sold this machine. Changing settings and the whole works, as I know others on here have done the same thing with other machines.

Long story even shorter, this machine will do pocket and do contour milling all day at 100 IPM program speed and 200 IPM on X-Y rapids. However the problem starts with carve files where we are doing XYZ moves all at the same time, much worse on very small detail.. The Z axis faults unless I have the Z at 5 IPM and program at 20 IPM. It will carve all day at that setting. BTW, just to prove a point, I did some welding in the shop when the machine was running as above, not a hickup!!

The support person said I have a power problem, I say BS, I have 120 vac and it never varys more than 1 +/- vac. I say its either the controller or the servo / encoder.... open to suggestions on how to deal with this person... the machine is less than 60 days old!! BG in Iowa.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby mark296 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:24 pm

If your Z-axes is running fine at 5 and you settings are at 20, try 20 for the Z and 100 for the settings. At least you should get 20 on the Z-axes, 30 would be better.
If I had a new machine run like that I would think about sending it back if they couldn't fix it. But give them a chance to fix it first.
Allways do a dry run first when changing settings. Cutting air is best for a test run on settings. Then if it looks good, cut wood.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:31 pm

mark296 wrote:If your Z-axes is running fine at 5 and you settings are at 20, try 20 for the Z and 100 for the settings. At least you should get 20 on the Z-axes, 30 would be better.
If I had a new machine run like that I would think about sending it back if they couldn't fix it. But give them a chance to fix it first.
Allways do a dry run first when changing settings. Cutting air is best for a test run on settings. Then if it looks good, cut wood.


I know this is not the proper forum or place for this discussion, but I love V Carve Pro and would like to buy and use on this machine to create art work and signs.
This machine Will Not run over 20 on the Z and 20 on X-Y without faulting the Z driver. Only on a carving file, this is on the Bulls Head test file.

Are the driver boards suppose to slow down the controller/ program code feed on any machine? Or does the servo encoder just fault out the driver board because the motor can't position fast enough????
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby mark296 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:58 pm

I don't think it is the servos or the board. Check your computers comports and the computer. What operating system xp?

I run my z at 20 to 30 so the tool does not flex much an cuts down one the tool marks. Running z that slow will slow down the x and y because x and y will never ramp up to speed. 3D files will take longer to cut if you want good quility finish with little to no sanding.
The last carving I did took 9 hours. Z was set a 20ipm x and y were set at 80ipm with a 1/8 ballnose cutting a 12x16" design. Yes I can cut it at 150ipm or more but the toolmarks are bad so I slow everything down.
If you are only getting 20ipm on all xy and z maybe you should check your ramping speed on the x and y but don't try to go to fast unless you like sanding.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby Noogies » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:39 am

wmgeorge wrote: The support person said I have a power problem, I say BS, I have 120 vac and it never varys more than 1 +/- vac. I say its either the controller or the servo / encoder.... open to suggestions on how to deal with this person... the machine is less than 60 days old!! BG in Iowa.


Since your mill seems to work ok when moving only one axis at a time, and your steppers stall when you use all axes at the same time, it probably is a power problem, but likely the problem is with the power supply rather than the power supplied. If your systems power supply cannot provide sufficient current to drive your steppers, the voltage will drop resulting in lost torque.

If you can hook up an analog voltmeter (digital meters aren't good for this purpose) to the lines supplying power to your drives, you should easily see if the voltage drops when you move all three axes at the same time. Then call support again, and find out if this is normal. If your mill is engineered correctly, you shouldn't have a significant voltage drop (more than 10%). If there is, then your power supply is pooched, or one or more of your drives is drawing way too much current.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:11 am

Hmm, Good point. Fred claims to be running the same file at his factory, on a similar system without a problem :?: at 150 IPM. Which I take with a grain of salt. I always suspicious of people when they tell me that no one else is having a problem, 99% of the time I find this is not true.
Tomorrow, I will hook up a Fluke digital but with a high low memory to the power supply and run it again. I would need to go back into my storage area to dig out an analog meter. Since the problem only occurs with a 3 axis movement, perhaps this is a answer. Thanks for the reply!!
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby sawmiller » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:02 am

are you using mach3?
do you have you computer set high enough for the pulses?
other than that power is the thing that comes to mind
make sure you check the power where it goes into your motors
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:07 am

sawmiller wrote:are you using mach3?
do you have you computer set high enough for the pulses?
other than that power is the thing that comes to mind
make sure you check the power where it goes into your motors


Nope, DeskCNC with a serial interface to computer. Servo system ONLY faults on a carving file, with small detail and lots of XYZ "G" code. Runs fine when at the speed and settings in the first post.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby dr_when » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:55 pm

As a side note, I will no longer do any business with IMService. Fred is helpful but they nickel and dime you for everything and they even charge $$ for their forum. I have made many purchases there but will no longer. I'd return the product. Just my opinion.

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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:52 pm

wmgeorge wrote:Hmm, Good point. Fred claims to be running the same file at his factory, on a similar system without a problem :?: at 150 IPM. Which I take with a grain of salt. I always suspicious of people when they tell me that no one else is having a problem, 99% of the time I find this is not true.
Tomorrow, I will hook up a Fluke digital but with a high low memory to the power supply and run it again. I would need to go back into my storage area to dig out an analog meter. Since the problem only occurs with a 3 axis movement, perhaps this is a answer. Thanks for the reply!!


OK, Since this is a servo system, would not just lower motor supply voltage just slow the system down? Not cause a fault?
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:27 pm

dr_when wrote:As a side note, I will no longer do any business with IMService. Fred is helpful but they nickel and dime you for everything and they even charge $$ for their forum. I have made many purchases there but will no longer. I'd return the product. Just my opinion.

Bob


Well I have not given up, yet but very close. Frankly you'd think with a factory built machine, controller and power supply, all I'd need to do is plug it in. Puzzled.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby Mike E » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:37 pm

wmgeorge wrote:
sawmiller wrote:are you using mach3?
do you have you computer set high enough for the pulses?
other than that power is the thing that comes to mind
make sure you check the power where it goes into your motors


Nope, DeskCNC with a serial interface to computer. Servo system ONLY faults on a carving file, with small detail and lots of XYZ "G" code. Runs fine when at the speed and settings in the first post.


You might want to look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4220
I was suffering from what I thought was slow 3D carving speeds @ 25ipm while carving at a 45° raster. x-y-z were all moving. This was the fastest the machine would go.
I switched to a x-raster cut (with only x-z moving)and the machine sped up to 100 ipm a 400% increase! The y-axis only came into play at the end of the cut.
If your machine is getting overloaded in x-y-z mode you may want to try that. If nothing else it may help you troubleshoot your problem.

Good luck
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby bbergami » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:46 pm

I use deskcnc and the controller with gecko G320's and have been very happy. Are you using the sv-500 servo drivers? I have a set of those that I never installed on a machine, but in testing they seemed very easy to fault for some reason. I never pursued it any further. If you have the Contouring set to 0 in the machine velocities setup, it will slow the machine way down. Set it to 1.
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby wmgeorge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:33 pm

bbergami wrote:I use deskcnc and the controller with gecko G320's and have been very happy. Are you using the sv-500 servo drivers? I have a set of those that I never installed on a machine, but in testing they seemed very easy to fault for some reason. I never pursued it any further. If you have the Contouring set to 0 in the machine velocities setup, it will slow the machine way down. Set it to 1.
Bert


Yes, I have the IM Service supplied SV-500 2nd generation driver boards. The problem is the "Z" axis faulting and for no reason, Fred at IM Service can't pin point and neither can I. I have done Everything he has asked, with no results.
For the record I am a Master Electrician with over 40 years in the trade, specialized in control wiring :). This is a IM Service factory built 12 x 24 router with servos and pre-wired control box with factory power supply, Plug and Play :(.

So using steppers, what kind of Vcarving speeds are you seeing with the Geckos?
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Re: Increasing Carve Speeds... Causes Servo Fault

Postby bbergami » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:49 pm

Actually the machine I use is not what I ever intended to use those drivers on. I'm using servo's. I can get 700-800 ipm rapids but I generally use no more than 150 ipm cutting speed to get a clean cut.

Have you tried swapping your axis on the servo drivers. It might pinpoint whether it's in the driver board or a mechanical problem with the z axis itself.
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