5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby usLEDsupply » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:34 am

Do any of you have a 5 hp ATC spindle? i am trying to decide what to get on our new machine (Shopsabre IS 510) and it's only $1800 more to got to the 10 HP ATC but most of the stuff we cut is 3/4 ply or 3/4 hard wood or v-carving poly so i would think the 5 hp would be fine
if it would come in handy i don't mind the extra cost but if its just going to waste power for 90% of the jobs it may not be worth it?
so i would love to hear your thoughts if you have a 5 hp one and wish you had a larger one or are glad you got a bigger one to start with or are fine with the 5 hp size
Thanks a lot
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby ger21 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:30 pm

1) How fast do you want to cut? 500ipm, or 1200ipm?

2) If the latter, can you hold your parts down when cutting at that speed?

With hardwoods, 5HP would be more than enough, unless you are using BIG tooling and hogging a lot of material.

I would expect the 10HP to potentially last longer, as most of the time you'll be using it at 20-30% of it's rated power.
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby Leo » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:30 pm

In my world, a 10hp would pretty much be minimum. As part of my employment as a senior manufacturing engineer I buy and install machines in a metal cutting industry.

If I think about a large cabinet shop where time is money and the machine needed to be feed several cabinet builders, and keep a production line running, I would highly recommend the 10 hp. All things said by GER21 standing - fast feedrates, fast cutting, time is essential. Full 3/4 cut with 1/2 cutter.

If I think about a one man shop where cabinet making is really important, but I am the only guy building and money in critical, but I cannot build any faster, then 5 hp is a really really nice option.

Currently, my personal shop - not my source of employment - I have a 4hp water cooled spindle. I do NOT push it to max, not by any stretch of the imagination. I can cut at 250 IPM with ease. I would take on cabinet building, if I liked to do that, which I do not. I do it on a very very small scale just for the money, but not as a source of income.

In a commercial shop - my 4hp would be a minimum, and considered a small machine.

I do use small machining centers to cut metal with a 5 hp spindle, and they function well. I have mill-turn machine with 5hp milling spindles and they function well removing significant amounts of metal (A2, O1 tool steels). But routers are a little different than metal cutting machines.
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby usLEDsupply » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:37 pm

I am used to cutting at 150in/min now so would be happy with 600 but i also like the idea of it not having to work hard for longer life but at the same time if it will use almost twice the electric is it worth it?
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby Leo » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:42 pm

Is it worth it --- is a question that cannot be answered on a forum like this.

That is a financial question that can only be answered b financial analysis based on your labor rate and what you charge your customer.

Will the increase in cutting speed increase you output and sales enough to offset the minimal cost of added electricity usage?
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby IslaWW » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:20 pm

Plus 1 to Leo's comments.

A few questions to ask yourself:

Is your hold down robust enough to handle the additional loads if you increase feeds?

Are you going to require aggressive cutting with bits over 3/8" dia?

5Hp spindles can cut 3/4 plywood materials one pass with a 3/8 bit in the ~4-500 ipm range, do you require more?

Do you feel that the cost is justified to allow your spindle to work in the lower percentage of its duty cycle to extend its life?
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby ger21 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:43 pm

I don't think that the 10HP will use twice the power, as the VFD only supplies the current that the spindle needs.
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby usLEDsupply » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:54 pm

ya i know with regular motors they will draw a big chunk of the power even without much load but i don't know much about the VFD Driven ones if that is the case i would just get the 10 hp and be done with it but i can't find any info on it (i guess i could clamp a meter to our current one and run a few cuts and see how it changes)
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby IslaWW » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:32 pm

If your "current one" is spindle with a vfd, it can be set to output amps on the display
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby usLEDsupply » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:20 pm

IslaWW you are right i forgot that was on the screen

mine seems to draw 9A when idle and 10A when cutting normal so doen't seem to change much

if any of you have a 10hp one could you take a look next time you fire it up and see what it is drawing when idle
Thanks
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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby Gundawg » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:26 am

I have that exact machine with the 5 HP HSD spindle but I am not a wood cutter I cut plastic and some aluminum. I have always have enough power for what I do and I went through the same decision and was advised by SS to save the money due to the material and hold down being the limiting factor and I would just spend more on running the bigger spindle. I have to agree for me if I push the cuts faster the edge finish degrades in the stuff I cut.

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Re: 5 hp or 10 hp spindle?

Postby Ollywood » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:57 pm

I have had both.

I started with a 5HP HSD on a 4x8 FMT, then upgraded to an 11HP HSD on my 5x10 FMT.

We cut solid hardwoods and plywoods. I was once told that it wouldn't be much difference for my usage and was advised to go with the 5HP.

I now see a big difference, the 11HP cuts so much better. Edge finish vs tool life vs hold down strength are all variables of course.

As I tell anyone that asks, buy the biggest spindle you can afford and make sure you get a tool changer if in business.

You can always upgrade your vacuum, spindles and tool changers are much harder to upgrade.

Good luck!
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