Spindle choices

Spindle choices

Postby GJHall » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:59 am

Having posted on a few sites and only getting vague answers, or changing to subject to something completely off topic.

I am considering buying a 2.2 KW spindle and power supply. I am wondering what others have found and if they are happy with their purchases. I see a lot on Ebay, but would like to see if there is a Canadian or American suppler for warranty purposes. I would buy other places if I can get any good recommendations.

Thanks in advance,

Gary
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Dclifton2 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:04 am

You can't beat the china spindles for price, I like the air cooled because you don't have to deal with coolant and pumps. Right now on ebay they seem to be pretty cheap. I don't like their invert-er I use ones made in Japan vs China. Make sure you have them setup correctly before applying power.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Dclifton2 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:10 am

This is the company I have use.

http://dealerselectric.com/L510-202-H1-N.asp

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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Rcnewcomb » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:43 am

You can purchase Colombo and HSD spindles through Shopbot

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Re: Spindle choices

Postby ger21 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:37 am

I see a lot on Ebay, but would like to see if there is a Canadian or American suppler for warranty purposes.


Yes, but you'll pay 2-3x more for that warranty.
http://ugracnc.com/

I haven't used them yet, but I was able to pick up two 2.2Kw air cooled round spindles on Ebay for $125 each.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Adrian » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:57 pm

Never tried one of the cheap ones as I haven't had the need. My HSD 2.2 is still going strong after 7 years. When it finally goes I'd be tempted to go for a cheaper one but knowing how well it's lasted I'll probably go for the same again.

It's always the same decision with tools. Life vs cost vs hassle.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Leo » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:15 pm

The ONE most important feature to ME - is the collet size. This IS what will DICTATE the size tool you can use.

Routers have a tendency to want 1/2 shank cutters, and the marketplace has a LOT of options for cutters with 1/2 shank. There is more available with 1/2 than with 1/4, or 3/8 shank. That means a minimum of an ER-20 collet. Larger is OK, but for the home or small business ER-20 is more than sufficient.

Once you have chosen the collet size the only two decisions left are "air vs water cooled" & price.
Personally, I like water cooled, nice and quiet, yes, the water cooling pump (very inexpensive) is a PITA.
My machine is Chinese made with HSD spindle.

On my new machine - this is exactly how I chose my spindle, and I am glad I did.

All the rest will just fall into place.

NOW - how often do I use a 1/2 shank cutter - often!!
MOSTLY, I use 1/4 collet or 1/8 collet.

I am very happy with my setup.


My previous machine had a ER-16 collet which is max 3/8 diameter.
MAN o MAN did I even wish I could use a 1/2 shank tool.
I had a 2hp Perske air cooled spindle
Nice, but loud.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby dbrook » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:16 pm

After going through a 3 hp Dewalt and 2 Hitachi routers I decided it was time to move to an industrial spindle. I recently upgraded to a 3KW HSD spindle and could not be more pleased with the performance as well as the quality. It was more expensive but the move was worth the additional cost. The noise level is so low that I frequently look a the bit to see if it is running prior to starting the cut.

I purchased the spindle, cable and collets from Joey at usroutertools.com located near Atlanta, Ga. He has the 3KW listed on the web now but he can get you the smaller HSD spindles. I have met Joey at several workshops/shows and have talked with him at length. He is great to work with and he knows what he is doing. At the time I purchased the spindle Joey did not have the VFD so I purchased the 5 hp GS2 25PO VFD and line reactor from automationdirect.com in Atlanta. Joey was nice enough to provided the set up parameters for me. I don't have 3 phase power in my shop so I went with the 5 hp VFD and set it up for single phase power. Both companies ship quickly and provide good support. The spindle has a 24 volt DC fan on it for cooling. I purchased a 24 DC din rail power supply and a short piece of din rail from Amazon.

Before I made the decision to go with a HSD I spent a good bit of time researching spindles and VFDs. If you check the various forums you will find that the quality of the Chinese spindles and especially the VFDs range from pure junk to being ok. If you choose to go the Chinese route, do your homework/research well or you will be throwing away your money.

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Re: Spindle choices

Postby dwilli9013 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:21 pm

Well figured I would get in the mix here.
Currently I am using a Makita 2.25 HP variable speed router. It does a great job for what I do but man is it loud. Been kicking around going to another spindle but am undecided on what I should go with.
I do have an HNZ-08 water cooled spindle 24000 RPM 220V that I rescued from a friend that moved up to a larger spindle. I think I would be unhappy with this though as I feel that it is way underpowered at only 1 HP but I have heard this spindle run and it is whisper quiet. Has the ER11 collet which would be ok as I seldomly use anything larger than a .25 shank at this point. My problem is should I just sell off this spindle and get something a bit more powerful with a larger collet or do I retro to the small spindle until she goes and then buy a bigger one.

Funny I am typing this now as my Makita is roaring away in the basement on a couple of projects. I know the wife would appreciate me going to a quieter spindle.

All the information on this forum alone is really helping me come to a final decision just waiting on the one post that pushes me over the edge.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby RhoTu » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:25 pm

I bought one of the 2.2 water cooled several years ago and have had no problems except setting up the inverter. I'm electrically challenged in the first place but got it worked out eventually after reading a ton of posts on user forums. There is a lot more information out there now.

As for cooling systems being expensive I can only say that for me it was not. I attached the homemade radiators to the gantry and the pump is just an aquarium pump. All of the hoses and connectors are standard computer coolant equipment. I have run this for hours at a time and the spindle never gets above 90 F.

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Re: Spindle choices

Postby Adrian » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:32 pm

Routers and spindles aren't rated the same way as far as HP goes so a 2hp router is not the same as a 2hp spindle.

Spindle power rating is a sustained output whereas a router is the peak output.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby scottp55 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:02 pm

What Adrian said Dwilli.
My HSD 1hp 110V has only bogged down twice in 3 years, and both times it was operator error.
I do NOT recommend cutting with the collet nut, or cutting .25"passes with an inch and a quarter mortising bit(instead of .025"....pesky decimal points!) :)
I'd say it has more torque than my 3.25hp PC plunge router.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby IslaWW » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:32 pm

As Adrian says, the HP rating of the AC brush motors are a bit of a "stretch". In fact if they made them less efficient (and drew more amps) they would advertise more HP.

I have done some real world non scientific testing using an HSD 1.0kw (1.34hp) 220V spindle vs 3.25hp PC and Milwaukee routers. Tests were done with a 1/2" bit, 1/2" pass depth in MDF. Feedrates started at 50ipm and increased by 50 with each pass. The results were charted at max rpm for all. Then at a percentage decrease based on router "presets". Another test was done at equal rpms.

Short answer was that at max rpm on both the little spindle was able to push the bit 25% faster than any router. That percentage that the spindle was "stronger" increased as the rpms went down. At lowest RPM of routers (10k rpm) the spindle was able to push the bit at double (or more) the feedrate that stalled either router. You can assume that would be 4 times as fast for a 1.7kw (2.2hp) spindle, slightly less for the 1 hp like Scott mentions.

In any case the mini 65mm 1.5kw Chinese spindles (I have owned and sold 3) will easily outperform any handheld router in the 3+hp class. The ones I had were shaft fans, which are noisier by far than an HSD fan cooled, but much quieter than any of the routers. The Milwaukee being far quieter, and slightly more powerful than the PC.

All in all, I have personally purchased (and then sold in a package) 13 Chinese "air cooling" spindles, some fan cooled, some with shaft fans. I have not heard of a failure. I do not use the generic cheapo eBay VFD's. I purchase from US brick and mortar suppliers and the VFD's are programmed properly, which along with cheapo water pumps on the water cooled versions, is a major source of spindle failure.
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby GJHall » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:58 am

Wow, Thanks for all the response.

I appreciate it. I will research further and see what I can come up with.

Thannks to all on this forum for all your sharing of knowledge. I am learning so much from here. :D

Thanks again,

Gary
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Re: Spindle choices

Postby vgraves » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:19 am

Not to muddy the water too much, there's another option you might consider. I have a PC 3.25 HP router, but it's powered by a SuperPID controller (http://www.vhipe.com/product-private/SuperPID-Home.htm). It maintains constant speed as the load on the spindle changes, and I can run speeds as low as 5000 rpm. I have mine set up to get its command speed from the gcode.

So while I too would like a high speed spindle, for now my setup is fine.

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