Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Gundawg » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:15 pm

My machine is a ShopSabre IS 510 I ordered the factory dust shoe and it does not work very well 4" connection dumped into a huge area of about 13" x 6" with a very long thin brush around the perimeter. The problem is the tool changer rack needs clearance so getting the dust foot down to do any good does not work and the huge area fed by a 4" hose is not getting much done. I machine plastic and aluminum and I need to pull the swarf out of the cut to stop re-cutting chips. I spotted this video on youtube and really like this approach does anyone know this guy I sure would like to pick his brain a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HlVNPnNHeU

I am running an Oneida 3.5 HP cyclone dust collector. My old manual change router had an adjustable dust foot and it worked pretty good so I know my dust collection system is capable. I just need a different design for this machine. My current tool changer is a side load which is what stops me from just lowering the dust shoe because it will hit the tool change rack. The only other answer is to automate the dust show to move up during tool changes and then down when cutting. I think converting to the plunge type tool holders would make this a simple fix compared to automating the dust foot.

I have located the parts on Thermwoods site and plan to order them the dust shoe in the video looks like a Kent design I will either make the new dust shoe or buy a Kent dust shoe. I run several different lengths of bits some fairly long so even with my old system it was hard to gather the swarf when using a long bit. I cut almost all sheet plastic and will be cutting some aluminum soon. Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

Mike
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Adrian » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:48 am

What type of bits are you using? I cut a lot of plastic and if you're using a down spiral bit you're not getting the chips out with anything less than a hurricane. An up spiral bit is fantastic for chip clearance but can present problems with hold down of the material.

I have a Kent shoe on my machine. They're excellent and you can get different brush lengths and spacers to cope with most situations.
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Gundawg » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:19 pm

I use Onsrud and always use up cut style but I machine some parts in 1.25" thick UHMW and that bit has a 1.625" CEL my current dust shoe will not pull the material out of the cut and UHMW is much tougher to cut than most other plastic. I also cut a lot of marine grade HDPE in .500" thickness it gets some of the swarf but 80% does not make it into the dust collector. The current Kent shoe does not work with the tool changer on my machine because it side loads unlike the video. I sent Kent an email and he says they are working with ShopSabre on developing a dust shoe for them so at this time I am going to wait and see what they come up with before converting my tool changer to this other system. I would much rather buy the finished product if it works good I have plenty of work to do and don't need another project.

I am looking forward to seeing their solution.

Thanks Mike
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby armbrusterco » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:17 am

The Kent dust shoe has worked great for me. I have Kent's attachments with 2" and 3" brushes, and 1/2" spacers. The combinations let me adjust for the different lengths of the bits. My In-Groove bits extend the farthest and tiny my 1/8" end mills are short.
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby IslaWW » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:13 pm

Mike...
They dustfoot type you select will have to accommodate the tool holders that you have available. The "Thermwood type" you link to has a vertical drop/pickup. Some use tool forks that require a lateral movement to load/unload.

Another option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1AR3fyfxM
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Ken Rychlik » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:40 pm

I have that spindle on my machine. I use top load holders and the dust foot is custom. A friend of mine has the sabre with the oem big square foot and the collection on it is not good along with ripping off brushes on the foot during tool changes. let me get you a few pics. I have a plumbing fitting directing the vac flow to the bit area also.
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Ken Rychlik » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:51 pm

The 90 degree fitting directing the vac flow to the bit helps a lot. Having a smaller foot helps, and going top load to not have to worry about sliding into forks makes a difference. I was told I needed to do a gantry lift to make this work, but I run 3.5 inch bits without issue. If it looks home made, it's because it is, but it works. Also I went with er20 iso30 collets that have a flange to just rest on the pvc pipe. Thermwood does make top load holders, but they looked flimsy to me. A few of the longer bits hang down into the bed and I have holes for dust ect to fall through. My little DC is 2hp and does a very good job with this.
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Gundawg » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:11 am

Thank you for the pictures I think this is the route I am going to go also but will probably just buy the Therwood stuff and make a dust foot. I had forgot about this thread I posted or I would have thanked you sooner for taking the time to post your pictures. My machine has 16" of Z travel so I think it can all sit above the table. I need to learn how to make up a new macro for the tool changer once I do the conversion. I was thinking about automating a new dust shoe to lift up at tool change but this method looks much simpler.

One of the things I did with the original dust foot is close off half the area and it helped but not enough.

Ken, the Thermwood holders have 2 pieces the top piece does look a little flimsy but it sits on a base making the legs would be simple enough.

Mike
Last edited by Gundawg on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Gundawg » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:23 am

IslaWW wrote:Mike...
They dustfoot type you select will have to accommodate the tool holders that you have available. The "Thermwood type" you link to has a vertical drop/pickup. Some use tool forks that require a lateral movement to load/unload.

Another option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1AR3fyfxM


Hi Gary,
Your dust foot was my first option but you said you could not sell me one remember. I am still willing to pay you if anything has changed. If I have to figure out that automation on my own I would rather just change to this other type tool holders it makes it much simpler for me.

I don't see where the side load tool holders are any advantage over the plunge type unless like in your video you have a carousel.

Thanks Mike
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby IslaWW » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:50 am

Mike...
Send me an email. (lower left)
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Re: Dust collection for a 5HP HSD W/Tool changer?

Postby Gundawg » Sun May 03, 2015 5:12 am

Well I thought I would update where I am in this process. I know now what does not work LOL. I decided to change out my tool grippers to the Therwood type and ordered up 10 of the 2 parts each that I needed when they showed up they did not fit my tool holders. My tool holders are standard ISO 30 tool holders with a 50MM diameter flange Thermwood makes there own tool holders and their ISO 30 taper holders have a larger diameter flange so mine just fall through the grippers.

I would have to change out all my tool holders and it is more than I want to spend even though they have a decent price $133 and change per tool holder if I didn't need 10 of them or was starting from scratch that is less than my originals tool holders cost I just don't want to be in this conversion for over $1500 plus I would still need to make a new dust shoe. I am not sure what I am going to do at this point. I thought about making my own tool grippers but the collet nut is larger than the flange on my tool holders so I am not sure what I had in mind would work so I am still wondering how to fix this issue.

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