semi bumpy cuts

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esteeme1
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by esteeme1 »

I'm running a WD-1 nowhere near as fast as yours. Mine is tuned to 160 ipm and this the max recommended tune speed and as I said before I'm don't having this issues. If 500 ipm is the recommended tuning speed so be it but from what I'm reading, there are more than one of you out there with this problem. It doesn't sound like the manufacture is providing a solution either. If you feel the problem is electrical then adjusting speeds will adjust frequencies across the board. It could get worse or it could clear up but it would provide you with an indication/symptom. I was not suggesting to leave it at those tune levels.

I know I don't know your machine but I slept in a Holiday Inn last night. No really I was a Sonarman for the past 20 years. It involves sound propagation, gear ratios, electro mechanical relationships as well as electronics. That is why I've found this topic so interesting. It probably took me the past 20 years to learn this; sound travels through anything for long distances and fast :roll: . A ship can displace over 90,000 ton of water, a lot of steel. You can go to the bow of the ship and hit it with a hammer and hear it at the stern. If you place your ear agains any part of the ship on the upper decks you can hear the engines 6 decks below.

Since you discarded the possibility of mechanical noise vibrating your gantry the first thing I thought of was your motors. I thought if you adjusted your tune level under this premiss; my truck seems to run better with a load, if I have something heavy in the bed it rides smoother as well, so with more torque on the engine and transmission there seems to be a better response. I would consider stepping up your max velocity is if putting a load in my truck. I understand that your steppers are running smooth but well it run better at a different velocity. You could have a week capacitor, a tired resister, a crappy power supply ……... Considering this is not occurring with every machine like yours there could be a problem with the manufacturing process. This could be originating from a parts supply or assembly. Of course this is all speculation I'm just saying some minor adjustments could give you the tell you need.
Jim Darlas
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http://www.esteemedwoodcrafts.com/
http://www.esteemedplaques.com/

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TReischl
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by TReischl »

Jim, we share some things in common. Before I became a civilian I was a flight engineer on piston type aircraft. Got very good at listening to the engines for signs of trouble and could also feel things thru my my butt.

I am the manufacturer of my machine. I believe quite a few of the others are also self built using many of the same components. If I had no background in this type of machine design I would just figure I was in over my head, but I designed high speed cnc machines for quite a few years on an industrial level.

I definitely appreciate your input and suggestions, this problem has not been solved yet.

The Romaxx is a well built machine from what I have seen.

The line about Holiday Inns was a good one :D
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

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TReischl
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by TReischl »

Jim, about your truck concept. It has merit. Obviously the load settles the springs giving a smoother ride. The same concept could apply in an electronic or mechanical sense on these machines. One way to remove the electronic spring is by defeating that resistor, another way would be to counterbalance Z axis.

If there is mechanical spring across the gantry bridge, I have a whole different problem.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

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TReischl
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by TReischl »

Time for an update.

The special motor cable came in, installed it. Tested it. Did not change a thing.

So, here is what I now absolutely, positively, without question know:

It is NOT the electronics. (that should make everyone who said it had to be mechanical happy) Don't get crazy happy though, you had a 50% chance of being correct, pretty good odds, better than you would get at Vegas.

I continued testing today. Took the ballnose endmill out of the picture and replaced it with a 1/16 dia end mill. Results were the same. So that eliminates tooling, also eliminates any dull tooling theories since it was a new tool.

Ran the tests at several differnt feedrates with interesting results as follows:

100 IPM no bumps
150 IPM no bumps
200 IPM no bumps
250 IPM BUMPS
300 IPM very very slight bumps spaced widely apart
350 IPM no bumps
400 IPM no bumps

Here is what I am thinking: If it were the R&P, the bumps would probably show up at all feedrates. I am wondering if the motor tends to run "rough" at the 250 IPM range and sets up the "resonance"?

One thing is for certain, if I want to run in that 250 IPM range, I need to beef up the gantry cross member. One nice thing, I know that I can either choose a higher or lower feedrate and avoid the bumps altogether until I decide to change out the gantry beam.

I ran an actual 3D model test at 350 IPM with no problems whatsoever. The model was an 8 inch diameter dish shape with a rooster in the middle. The max DOC was .255. At 350 IPM it took just under 29 minutes of cutting time. (at 100 IPM it would take about 1 hr 40 minutes) Higher feedrates are very important in cutting 3D even though it may appear that the machine is not reaching the programmed feed rate very often.

To everyone who contributed: Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions, they really helped!
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

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esteeme1
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by esteeme1 »

TR are there 2 drive gears on your ways? If so is it possible that on of them are slightly off from the other one. Meaning if the gear teeth don't line up exactly so as on gear meshes with the way the other one will tend to ride up the side of the tooth. You probably wouldn't see this at slower speed because the gears would have time to mesh but at higher speeds not. If it isn't a distance issue than what about a runout problem?
Jim Darlas
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http://www.esteemedplaques.com/

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TReischl
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by TReischl »

esteeme1 wrote:TR are there 2 drive gears on your ways? If so is it possible that on of them are slightly off from the other one. Meaning if the gear teeth don't line up exactly so as on gear meshes with the way the other one will tend to ride up the side of the tooth. You probably wouldn't see this at slower speed because the gears would have time to mesh but at higher speeds not. If it isn't a distance issue than what about a runout problem?
That axis only has one motor, one rack and one pinion Jim. I put a "tell" on the assembly so I could see the "resonance". The tell was a long piece of 1/8 aluminum bar with a weight on the end. It worked great. I could see it bounce at the 250 IPM and not bounce at the other feeds. Remember, this bounce only happens at about 250, not under and not over. I also adjusted the spring tension that controls the mesh between the pinion and the rack with no change. I adjusted from almost no tension to full hard in two turn increments. So I am fairly convinced the mesh is not the problem.

Evidently, the cross beam on the axis "twists" enough to show the resonance of the motor or whatever else is causing it at the 250 IPM feedrate.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Johns

johntech
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Re: semi bumpy cuts

Post by johntech »

I see you all have checked the mechanical things, how about a noisy power supply that has maybe a bad capacitor that would add a 50 or 60 cycle hum to things? Just an observation

John

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