Problem with a program.

Re: Problem with a program.

Postby DMcDonald » Fri May 12, 2017 7:00 pm

Yes it was in the memory of the computer. No I can't read g-code. I didn't hear anything that would lead me to think something mechanical. Since I can't 100% recreate any possible error that may have happened physically with the machine the only thing that could be checked is the program. My thinking was maybe someone could look at the code and say yes or no we see a problem. At least that way I could check that off the list of possibilities. I had a program Wed. afternoon that didn't want to run and figured out that I had put in a value of .0625 for the depth of a cut and the machine only recognizes 3 decimal points not 4. I automatically put .0625 in because that is 1/16 in my mind. Like I said I got it to finish running just trying to track down what the problem is so maybe it won't happen again. It has made me a little weary of not being ready to hit stop at each tool change. Thanks again for all the responses even if I don't get a solution it is all things to keep in mind. By the way TReischl I made the vice from plans we got from you about a year ago. Haven't used it since the job we got it for fell through, but at least we have a nice vice.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Adrian » Fri May 12, 2017 8:34 pm

I didn't realise it was the same program that you were running over and over. It doesn't make any sense that it would be an error in the code as it would do it every time not randomly.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby TReischl » Fri May 12, 2017 9:40 pm

DM, things like this are a total PITA. You won't hear stray or faulty electrical signals. Stuff just happens that makes no sense. I tossed mechanical in just to cover my bet :wink:

About reading G code. . . . it LOOKS really strange, but in fact it is really simple. Has to be, a machine can understand it!

IF this happens again, when you hit the panic button see if you can get the line number it was working on when it happened. Then, grab up about 20 lines before and after that line and paste it here for us guys/gals to get a look at.

Frankly, I wish it was a software issue, those are much easier to fix than tracking down why a machine is getting false signals.

How do things stand as of right now? If you have not solved it yet, I would load up and run with no tool and my Z zero set pretty high and see what is what.

Thanks for the comment about the vise. I use mine a lot, lately I have been building various pieces of furniture with lots of mortise and tenons. It beats the heck out of using a mortising machine!!! Have a jig that hangs off the front of my machine to do the tenons. I can knock out about 20 tenons in under 10 minutes.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby martin54 » Sat May 13, 2017 2:27 am

I didn't hear anything that would lead me to think something mechanical

backlash, an axis binding or a coupling slipping plus countless other mechanical problems won't make a lot of noise to start with & with stepper motors trundling backwards & forwards, a spindle/router turning & a bit cutting I doubt you would hear much. I don't think it is anything to do with those but just mentioned it because you shouldn't write off a mechanical problem because you can't hear anything :lol: :lol:
Electrical interference could well be a problem & it can appear to be totally random & difficult to track down, is your machine well grounded ? What sort of dust extraction do you have as static caused by a dust hose has caused problems for people in the past.
I am not familiar with your CNC control software but some (mach3 for example) don't like background apps running so if the computer is dedicated to the CNC alone it is a good idea to prevent any background apps running while cutting & turn off any power saving features :lol:

Got to agree with you about Ted's vices, they are pretty good aren't they :lol: :lol:
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby DMcDonald » Sat May 13, 2017 6:53 am

martin54 wrote: CNC control software but some (mach3 for example) don't like background apps running so if the computer is dedicated to the CNC alone it is a good idea to prevent any background apps running while cutting & turn off any power saving features



The computer isn't hooked up to the internet and only has a control screen for the cnc. I will take a picture of it on Sunday and post it. The dust collector is a cyclone unit that came with the machine and has a flexible 4 inch ? I think plastic hose that goes up and attaches to the plenum at the dust collector. I don't think the dust collector is grounded now that I thinnk about it. The electrical for the cnc was done by an electrician so I assume it is grounded correctly.

TReischl wrote:IF this happens again, when you hit the panic button see if you can get the line number it was working on when it happened. Then, grab up about 20 lines before and after that line and paste it here for us guys/gals to get a look at.


I will do that.

TReischl wrote:How do things stand as of right now? If you have not solved it yet, I would load up and run with no tool and my Z zero set pretty high and see what is what.


I rewrote the toolpath and it ran fine. Got the job done and the guy picked everything up today. Happy customer. Now I am not sure if it was the toolpath or something else. I will try running it on Sunday with no tools in and see if it does the same thing and get the g code. We run mostly the same programs and they all run good. It is jobs like this that are more like side work that the occasional problem comes up. I should probably look into learning a little about reading g code. Thanks for the help.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby martin54 » Sat May 13, 2017 11:13 am

The computer isn't hooked up to the internet and only has a control screen for the cnc

It doesn't need to be hooked up to the internet to run background apps, for instance if you have antivirus/malware software installed then it will scan the computer regardless of any internet connection, windows update will still try to connect even though it can't, power saving features if running will dim & then shut down monitors, power down hard drives & put the computer in sleep mode. A lot of these apps come with windows, they are not programs that you have to physically install yourself :lol:
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby highpockets » Sat May 13, 2017 4:52 pm

Here are a couple of videos that every CNCer should watch. This guy is long winded, but the information he imparts is well worth the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQF7okWWWfQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84udcsEC7zI
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Pete Howlett » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:33 pm

So do you recommend removing all programs except the operating sytem and the Mac3 software because I have an issue and I am sure it is related to this topic. A newly delivered machine and laptop worked fine on day 1. Then when I shut down the laptop it went into configuration windows routine. Despite not being connected to the inetrnet and cutting the power to the laptop I returned the following day to find Netflix, Skype and all sorts of other apps on the laptop. I also tried to bypass these by running the laptop in airplane mode but still got problem with corrupt code occuring in different parts of the cycle on different parts of the same component - I machined one and got drift at one point then tried again and it followed through on the same piece. I then tried on another blank and drift occured in an entirely different place and in a different direction so the code wasn't 'corrupted' in just one place - it wfailed to work, then worked tjhen failed to work onthe next piece offered for machining...
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Adrian » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:24 pm

New machines generally come with masses of trial software etc that just aren't needed and often cause endless problems with their nagging routines.

For a control PC a straight installation of Windows with screensaver disabled (plus automatic updates if it's on the net) is all that's really needed. I know a lot of people go to all sorts of lengths disabling other services but in over 10 years of running Windows based control PC's I haven't found that to be necessary.

Going by your other thread it does sound more like a motor or other hardware problem rather than software though.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Pete Howlett » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Same problem 2 different machines? Can you recommend feed rates or point me to a feed rate chart for hardwood. We run 8mm and 12mm spiral downcut cutters
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Adrian » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:12 pm

I can point you to many feed rate charts but you said on your other thread you don't understand them.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Pete Howlett » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:10 pm

It's sorting out the nomenclature and then doing the calcs. I'm not lazy, just not overly technical :)
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby Martin Reid » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:26 am

I follow on a little from what Leo says (SOMETIMES Z height)

The one time we had this issue (Shopbot PRS Alpha).

At the end of the programme (JZ,30.000000) the head hit the limit switch on the Z axis, stopped the spindle and while it was on the way home (J2,0.000000,0.000000) gravity pulled the head down and the cutter bottomed (in our case in the job - in your case the bed)

Why you might ask did it run successfully for two years before it 'crashed'?

When the cutter was inserted in the chuck this particular time the cutter was protruding just a few millimetres more that before and in order to lift out of the cut the head hit the limit switch. On reflection we must have been very close to it every other time we changed the cutter. It was an accident waiting to happen. Since then of course we have changed the Home Position Z in Material Setup to a more appropriate (reduced) value.

For the record this was a long cutter cutting deep in a work piece.

It may (or may not) be what caused your issue but I thought it worth mentioning just in case and to give a heads up to other readers.

Yours sincerely and in good faith
Martin Reid


PS

Highpockets & TReischi - We have had 'grounding issues’ in the past, very frustrating and hard to track down.

4DThinker & Leo - Yes we also have had USB issues if we didn't "safely remove hardware" before removing memory sticks. And long ago in the days of 'floppies' even had problems when the floppy ran out of memory and the programme wasn't completely transferred to the disk - obviously it would just stop mid programme, there is no automatic error checking for that. It took ages to track that one down.

and finally I agree with everyone the computer controlling the machine should have nothing else running - use task manager to see what is running (CTRL ALT DEL - start task manager) and use Control Panel - Programs and Features - to uninstall stuff - It can't run if its not on the machine.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby DMcDonald » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:06 am

TReischl wrote:DM, things like this are a total PITA. You won't hear stray or faulty electrical signals. Stuff just happens that makes no sense. I tossed mechanical in just to cover my bet :wink:

About reading G code. . . . it LOOKS really strange, but in fact it is really simple. Has to be, a machine can understand it!

IF this happens again, when you hit the panic button see if you can get the line number it was working on when it happened. Then, grab up about 20 lines before and after that line and paste it here for us guys/gals to get a look at.

Frankly, I wish it was a software issue, those are much easier to fix than tracking down why a machine is getting false signals.

How do things stand as of right now? If you have not solved it yet, I would load up and run with no tool and my Z zero set pretty high and see what is what.

Thanks for the comment about the vise. I use mine a lot, lately I have been building various pieces of furniture with lots of mortise and tenons. It beats the heck out of using a mortising machine!!! Have a jig that hangs off the front of my machine to do the tenons. I can knock out about 20 tenons in under 10 minutes.


TReisch I am working on a job with a bunch of mortise and tenons. How are you hanging the parts off the front and running them? I am cutting one side then flipping the part and cutting the other side. If I could stand the 4x4 on end it would be much faster.
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Re: Problem with a program.

Postby 4DThinker » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:26 am

DMcDonald wrote:TReisch I am working on a job with a bunch of mortise and tenons. How are you hanging the parts off the front and running them? I am cutting one side then flipping the part and cutting the other side. If I could stand the 4x4 on end it would be much faster.
If you have a slew of those to do, I've figured out how to edit a post processor and remount my router to a horizontal orientation so I can cut tenons on the end 2x and 4x material while they are laying flat hanging off the end of my CNC.

After all that no one was interested in CNC-cut joinery that wouldn't show when assembled, so I've scrapped the idea. I still have all details though.

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