The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby IslaWW » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:43 pm

4D..
Since I already build and sell ATC upgrade and DIY kits, most with a fixed rack are (to me) mechanically simple, what do you consider to be low cost?
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby Tailmaker » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:03 pm

Assuming money is not an issue, my next desktop machine (I.M.O. max 36"x36" to qualify as "desktop") would have as key features that are missing on my current machine:
- 20 or 25mm linear profile bearings for all axes
- servos or closed loop steppers
- dual lead screws for y-axis
- recessed rotary axis in plane with table surface (removable/coverable)
- x-bearings, lead screws and gantry on a raised frame that can easily be unbolted from the table for transport, possibly even flipped up 90 degrees for vertical machining. This would require connecting the this frame to the table with rigid columns and eliminate the gantry uprights.

Other valuable features of my current self-built machine that I would want to keep:
- dual lead screws for x-axis,
- zero-backlash precision ground ballscrews
- completely dust protected bearings and lead screws with moving curtains
- t-slot table with integrated vacuum conduits
- rigid torque box table/under-carrier
- 3hp spindle (low cost Chinese one is good enough) with dust collector air cooling
- ATC would be nice to have. However, I don't do repeat/series production of same parts and while cursing about the manual tool change, an automatic one could seriously increase the risk of a mistake for my one-off projects.
- removable long table accessory that triples x-motion mechanically in case parts up to 100" long need to be machined on the desktop (not used very often)

Only problem is my current machine is already pretty good and the motivation to start a significant new machine project is quite limited.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby Leo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:16 pm

ALL of the above for the really nice price or $1199 USD - FREE SHIPPING - FREE INSTALLATION - FREE 1 year onsite training and support. A tootsie roll pop would be a nice to have :)
Imagine the Possibilities of a Creative mind

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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby 4DThinker » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:42 pm

IslaWW wrote:4D..
Since I already build and sell ATC upgrade and DIY kits, most with a fixed rack are (to me) mechanically simple, what do you consider to be low cost?

I've seen and appreciate what you make and sell. I've been contemplating this ATC challenge a few years now and ideally want a solution that doesn't require pressurized air (no compressor in the room where my CNC sits). I want it to retrofit into the frame of my Probotix meteor, leaving the front edge/rail rather than the back edge/rail as the best location for picking up a new tool. The machine also homes at the front left corner, so a tool rack would have to slide in and out of the accessible area. That implies another stepper/servo for the sliding, which of course needs another signal from the controller.

I've already figured out a post processor, the subroutines needed when a new tool is requested, a tool rack, and how to drop off and pick up and power entire trim routers as the spindle. Each trim router is $69. Not expensive, but not my ideal spindle either. Moving the tool rack in and out has me "stuck" at the moment.

If a complete 25" x 50" CNC with no ATC can be had for $4300 from probotix, I'd want the ATC 4-tool option to keep the total price under $5000. Where I work any purchase under/equal to 5K doesn't have to go out for bids. A practical cost, but I realize not necessarily a reasonable cost for the technology.

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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby scubanimal » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:18 pm

If I did not have to worry about cost:
My Hobbyist wish list (in order),
1) Automatic tool Changer
2) Clean VERTICAL clamping (not something I've jury rigged)
3) Laser (cutting/engraving). Saw a promising one at the vectric user group vegas 2017, good price point, but would needs help to swap in/out with cutting tool to be accurate.
4) Compact (my Stinger 1 is silly large, that box on the end could easily been put under and save precious floor space.
5) 5th axis would open up a new world, assuming Vectric software supported it.
6) Enclosure - for machine with dust & sound control but easily opens and full access (heck good plans & parts list would solve this). My homebuilts have not been good enough.

realism factor, would need to find a way to resell my Stinger to get a new one, so helping accomplish that would be a key.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby dbrook » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:49 pm

Beyond the typical things on a 2’ x 3’ or 2’ x 4’ machine I would like to have:
1. Nine inches of clearance under the x gantry.
2. Six or more inches of Z travel.
3. A vertical clamping area at the front of the Machine.
4. A laser engraving attachment.
5. A removable 3D extruder and removable heated bed (14” x 14”) as an option.
6. A four or five tool ATC as a reasonable cost option.
7. A 4 hp spindle.
8. A machine with the precision, stability and repeatability to accurately machine 6061 aluminum +- (.002).
9. A optional machined flat aluminum plate the size of the cutting area with blind holes drilled and tapped on 2” centers with liquid tight chip guards on all four sides.
10. A reasonably priced mister system.
11. The bed plumbed for two vacuum hold down areas.
12. The base machine with the ATC in the $10,000 - $11,000 range.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby IslaWW » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:30 pm

So far, other than being able to match the cost to value ratio for some of these options, the list is fairly well covered. By definition, if you post an option and then qualify it with a price, you already know you cant afford it.

Forgetting price, what are the features that would make your life in CNC better?
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby LittleGreyMan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:00 am

Gary,

I didn't answer as I have no idea of what a woodworker would like.

But given all the problems related to "light" machines we see on the forum, I guess a lot of people require a sturdy machine.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby ger21 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:47 pm

All welded heavy wall steel, stress relieved and machined for rail and ballscrew mounting surfaces.

Precision ground ballscrews.

AC servos.

5HP ATC spindle.

Becker Vacuum Pump.

And throw a drilling spindle on there while you're at it.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby newmexico » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:34 pm

We make signs.

We would appreciate an APP (or camera) to keep an eye on the cutting process from the couch. This could make my CNC life easier.

We run two Shopbot desktops (24 x 32 I think). Very solid machine. Would buy them again.

For us, the money is in vcarving wood. We will go where the money is. Actually, we have no choice... Gotta follow the money.

Lasers and 3d is a luxury and exotic IMHO.

We could use a full 12" travel height on the Z axis for turning signs on their edge and cutting.

For those of us in sign making, our needs are simpler.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby martin54 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:53 pm

For those of us in sign making, our needs are simpler.

Sign Making is a huge very varied industry so you can't make a general statement like that, it is only correct to say that your needs are simpler :lol: :lol: :lol:

Some signmakers produce a lot of aluminium or ACM folded fret cut trays so a machine less than 10 foot in length (working area) means most jobs would be tiled which soon becomes tiresome, others concentrate of supplying flat cut letters where a large machine is also best to maximise the amount of letters per sheet. So in sign making as in most other industries the machine needs are very varied.

Most of my work is vinyl & digital print, my cnc doesn't get used that much for the sign making work I do, would like to do more with it but it can be difficult to find the right sort of work for the machine I own to do :lol: :lol:

Don't know if you have seen this before Gary but this was an interesting small footprint machine build :lol:

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6484-A-s ... ng-machine
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby ger21 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:22 pm

newmexico wrote:We would appreciate an APP (or camera) to keep an eye on the cutting process from the couch. This could make my CNC life easier.


Buy a camera and watch it on your phone.
https://www.amazon.com/EZVIZ-Wi-Fi-Moni ... 1X02Q5HATJ
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby newmexico » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:19 pm

Where would we be in this world without "Wizards?"

Actually, there is nothing "Simple" in any kind of CNC application. Signs can be seriously complicated at times.

We stand corrected! Thanks.
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby martin54 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:02 pm

newmexico wrote:Where would we be in this world without "Wizards?"

Actually, there is nothing "Simple" in any kind of CNC application. Signs can be seriously complicated at times.

We stand corrected! Thanks.


Haha, you must be talking about ger21

Makes me laugh when I look at the Vectric rating as I am in no way a "wizard" (maybe one day) the vectric rating system is based solely on the number of posts you have made & having been on here quite a while I have made quite a lot. Many in the Gallery section admiring the work of others :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The "Ultimate Tabletop Machine" for Woodworkers

Postby Wdp67 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:18 pm

Gary,
Where can I get info on your ATC upgrade, I tried googling it but had no luck?

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