Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby TReischl » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:23 pm

Ed: Yup, it is very hard to tell what the depth of that carving would be from the screen shot on eBay. It is also impossible to tell if the person who machined it on Etsy squashed it or not because that screen shot is also straight on. Just as an aside, I get a kick out of how he lists it as "hand made", on a computer controlled machine. I guess these days "hand made" means a robot was not used to put the material in the machine, LOL.

Not sure if they would respond as to how deep the model is? Problem is that the depth is dependent on the overall scale of the model when carved. So you would actually need to know all three dimensions and then do the math of scaling them.

How do you tell just by looking at the pics on eBay? Sometimes you can't, your bear is an example of that. Sometimes you will be able to see really deep shadow lines, that is indicative of a really deep model.

Randy made a lot of good points in his post above.

Now that you have told us how much Z travel you have, a little less than 4 inches, you could probably machine that out of 1.5 thick stock and get much better results. Tapered ball nose bits are your friends as Randy pointed out above. Normally where a person can get in trouble with the bit length v depth of model issue is on the edges of the carving, it is usually along the outside edge where the deepest cuts occur (dishes are a different matter). So you need to remove enough material outside of the edge of the model so your tool and collet have room.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby martin54 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:36 pm

ezurick wrote:
martin54 wrote:
ezurick wrote:No help I see.... :( All the vectric tutorials on importing 3D files are vectric 3D files... nothing on STL imports... guess I'll continue researching and keep trying. Rather frustrating.


Give it a bit of time :lol: :lol:
Sure someone will answer your questions but most on the forum are people just like yourself with other things to do. :lol: :lol:

I will have a look latter but justy in the door from my work & going to have my dinner before I do anything :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have you tried this tutorial??

https://support.vectric.com/tutorials/V ... ideo_id=89


That tutorial is also design & make 3D, not STL.


So you didn't watch past the first 5 mins then :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can see the toolpath 3D results, but is there a way to see how deep any of the toolpath cut? Perhaps not.

If you hver your curser over the toolpath preview you can see the x y & z values so you can tell how deep different parts of the model are cutting, if you hover the curser over any of the toolpaths in the toolpath list it will give you details about that toolpath, one of which is the max carving depth of the toolpath :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby wmgeorge » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 am

ezurick wrote:Someone that used that same bear STL to make a wall clock. Perhaps it is the same person selling the STL files on ebay, I am not sure, but both are from Ukraine/Russia. Noticed that he got proper thickness. And perhaps he used a thicker board than what I am trying. Again, I will have to look into getting tools to handle thicker boards. My end mills couldn't do more than .75"


I did my first Import and 3D into VCarve Pro months ago and I have forgotten how I did it. Its my understanding you can not "edit" a STL file. Can you get the seller to get it to you as a DXF or DWG file, the best one of course would be the native file he used in his CAD program. Or the thicker board, my mills will do up to 2 inches if needed.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby ezurick » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:44 pm

Since the seller is in Ukraine or Russia, not sure which, I don't think I'll try to ask complex questions over ebay. Perhaps he may understand, but I just don't see that as a good way to communicate. If he was in the US I'd go for it. I have ordered a 1/4" one inch cut EM that is 2 1/2" in length. That should do the trick for both the rough and the cut out. I am hoping that I shouldn't need an extra long ball nose for the finish as I will use about .125" offset. So yes, I am going with a thicker board. The 3D preview of a 1 1/2" board looks much better as a result.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby TReischl » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:11 pm

wmgeorge wrote:
I did my first Import and 3D into VCarve Pro months ago and I have forgotten how I did it. Its my understanding you can not "edit" a STL file. Can you get the seller to get it to you as a DXF or DWG file, the best one of course would be the native file he used in his CAD program. Or the thicker board, my mills will do up to 2 inches if needed.


You are correct that you cannot edit an STL file in VCarve. But they are editable in a lot of other software including Aspire.

It is rare for anyone who is doing modeling to work with DXF or DWG files these days. That said, the people selling from the Ukraine are probably doing very little "modeling" at all. Some of it is obviously pirated, some of it comes from scanning with a really good scanner, etc.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby ezurick » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:08 am

TReischl wrote:
wmgeorge wrote:
I did my first Import and 3D into VCarve Pro months ago and I have forgotten how I did it. Its my understanding you can not "edit" a STL file. Can you get the seller to get it to you as a DXF or DWG file, the best one of course would be the native file he used in his CAD program. Or the thicker board, my mills will do up to 2 inches if needed.


You are correct that you cannot edit an STL file in VCarve. But they are editable in a lot of other software including Aspire.

It is rare for anyone who is doing modeling to work with DXF or DWG files these days. That said, the people selling from the Ukraine are probably doing very little "modeling" at all. Some of it is obviously pirated, some of it comes from scanning with a really good scanner, etc.


I think your are responding to your own statements Ted. I never once said anything about editing STL in vcarve. lol.

I use a program called 'mesh mixer' to edit (this forum doesn't like that name). Free program, works great and lots of youtube tutorials and help for doing some basic 3D STL editing. Of course if one is new to computers and graphic programs, it will be a steep learning curve. I've been computing, including programming in 'C' since the mid 80's. Started on a Unix box. So I pick up pretty quick on many things. I also know all about nefarious and shady characters on ebay and other similar sites. This seller had a pretty good feedback and wasn't new to the selling. I realize the ebay feedback isn't full-proof. But if you look though some of the posters... it isn't hard to see what is baloney and what is valid.

I've imported the STL and set it up using a 1 1/2" board and the 3D view of the result looks so much better. I just have to wait for my new 1/4" EM that is 2 1/2" length to get here. Chinese seller on amazon that claims to be in California and est dewivery between 26 July and August 10. That usually means around August 10th... lol. At least it isn't a month and half ship time from deep dark China. lol.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby TReischl » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:10 pm

Could be I was talking to myself Ed, I do that all the time when Murphy is not around.

I don't think most of the folks on the forum have a problem with mentioning other software, I sure as heck don't. I use all sorts of programs to get the job done. Corel is my go to drawing program. Use 3D Coat for some of the modeling. Sort of a weird program but it can do some interesting things very quickly. I think of software just like I think of the tools in my shop. Each one has something it does really well so there is no point in trying to make it do something it does not do well.

Ah the early to mid 80's, the wild and wooley days of software writing! The DOS command line, strange interfaces, what a time. I started the software company in 1983 using tools like Halo graphics. No such thing as a degree in computer science. The advent of the IBM PC. Here is a great one, before I started the software company I was working for company selling NC programming systems, was told on screen graphics would never catch on. Now there was a visionary! A 10mb hard drive only cost about $9000 and would hold all the data one could possibly ever need. Dial up modems at 56kbps! Those were the days lemme tell ya, LOL.

I have been doing pretty good with the chinese stuff. It is usually here a bit before they say it will. The stuff is so cheap I usually order 3-5 of something so I have extras and also because I will buy HSS before carbide, not for the price but because I cut a lot of pine and it works better for me.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby ezurick » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:35 am

lol. that made me laugh...

As for the mesh mixer... try to type that in as one word and hit the submit. This forum is set to change that to something else. Perhaps the admins thought it was a bad word... lol.

As you might remember, unix came long before DOS. And I do remember my first DOS machine which had DOS version 2.1. Of course I was so excited when it was updated to 2.2. Some new hidden commands. I think I was still stuck in the 3.3 version when Wndows 1.0 came out and I refused to convert until I had to in 3.1 version (Dept of Def started using that and office in the mid 90's). And I also do remember sitting on the hopper, paging through that thick technology magazine with all the computer ads... drooling and wishing I could afford a 10MB hard drive the size of a toaster. It was so much space, I wouldn't know what to do with it all.... lol. And most of us peasant nerds only had a 300 baud modem. Only the big boys were zooming with the 56k when it came out... we were scrambling to acquire a brand new 1200 baud! lol. Thanks for reminiscing with me... I love to see the grand kids expressions when I talk of those ancient days.... lol.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby scottp55 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:23 pm

IBM quote my Dad used to laugh at:)
aea58c1b67c5dc6931af559300dbe292--future-computers-technology-quotes.jpg


And a couple more :D
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby TReischl » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:07 pm

some editing software is really a banned word? C'mon!

Edit: Holy umbilical cord Batman! It really is banned! WOW!

This is amazing, it replaced THAT word with "some editing software". Incredible, in my 12+ years on this forum I have never seen anything like that.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby TReischl » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:12 pm

scottp55 wrote:IBM quote my Dad used to laugh at:)
aea58c1b67c5dc6931af559300dbe292--future-computers-technology-quotes.jpg


And a couple more :D


And just think Scott, those were the guys who were making the big bucks!
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby scottp55 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:39 pm

THAT'S disturbing considering I'm JUST starting to learn the above mentioned editing program to fix .stl Topo "HOLES" in SRTM1 data :(

Yep Ted...THE leading "Forward Thinkers"....I remember being spanked by Gramp when asked what I wanted to be...."An astronaut and live on the Moon" because I had just read the "The Moon is a Hard Mistress" by Heinlein.....Dad got a GOOD talking to about the TRASH I was reading :D
Hmm...Moon base...AI...computers running the environment.....YEP...TRASH :D
Tele-operators running machines by computer from a remote location?
Just talked to someone who....IT'S his JOB :)
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby kstrauss » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:58 pm

Martin54 wrote:
If you hver your curser over the toolpath preview you can see the x y & z values so you can tell how deep different parts of the model are cutting, if you hover the curser over any of the toolpaths in the toolpath list it will give you details about that toolpath, one of which is the max carving depth of the toolpath


Hovering seems to do nothing with VCarve Desktop. What am I missing?
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby wb9tpg » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:53 pm

I import STL files into Vcarve Pro, tool path them, then cut them on my Shapeoko all the time. I also use Blender to create and alter STL files as well. I'm able to run 3D carves set to 150ipm with a 4 flute Whiteside SC64 bit on that machine in cherry wood

I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have regarding the process.
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Re: Help 3D rough cut of STL - Air Cutting

Postby scottp55 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:17 pm

VCP 9.5** Pro here,but hopefully the same as far as this goes.
After toolpath has been calculated, and toolpath is hovered over (pic shown is just highlighted) it shows a lot of information including the cuts Max Depth.
Can't get a pic of it with Greenshot as it disappears when mouse button is pressed:(
Also once calculated, moving mouse around the 3D preview model, shows the depth at the tip of the mouse pointer.
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Woops...PIC :oops:
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