A simple way to make inlays

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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby FixitMike » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:51 pm

[quote="KWiK"] I have read a lot of the posts, but not all. I have never understood the relationship well enough,


This drawing shows how the toolpath settings work:
VCarve Inlay.png
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby KWiK » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:00 am

Thanks Mike.

So Basically I was correct in that the Base Flat Depth - Inlay Start Depth, gives you the space between the two. So the PDF example in Post 1 has a Base Flat Depth of 0.3" and a Inlay Start Depth of 0.1", so that would give you 0.3" - 0.1" = 0.2" of glue gap? Doesn't that seem excessive? I would think a gap of 0.05" to 0.1" would be more than enough?

Do people always use Inlay Start Depth + Inlay Flat Depth = Base Flat Depth?
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby FixitMike » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:31 am

KWiK wrote:Thanks Mike.

So Basically I was correct in that the Base Flat Depth - Inlay Start Depth, gives you the space between the two. So the PDF example in Post 1 has a Base Flat Depth of 0.3" and a Inlay Start Depth of 0.1", so that would give you 0.3" - 0.1" = 0.2" of glue gap? Doesn't that seem excessive? I would think a gap of 0.05" to 0.1" would be more than enough?

Do people always use Inlay Start Depth + Inlay Flat Depth = Base Flat Depth?

In my personal opinion, those settings are in error. I vary the settings depending upon the material, inlay details, and how I intend to remove the excess material (and sometimes how I feel, or what day of the week it is.). Almost always I set the base flat depth to be about .03" greater than the inlay start depth.

Just be very to sure to remove all of the fuzzies and splinters from the pieces before you put them together. I use a toothbrush and dental picks.
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby ablesser » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:54 pm

FixitMike wrote:In my personal opinion, those settings are in error. I vary the settings depending upon the material, inlay details, and how I intend to remove the excess material (and sometimes how I feel, or what day of the week it is.). Almost always I set the base flat depth to be about .03" greater than the inlay start depth.

Just be very to sure to remove all of the fuzzies and splinters from the pieces before you put them together. I use a toothbrush and dental picks.


-Vectric's latest tutorial video on this on youtube would agree with you that 0.2" is too much. They seem to recommend 0.1", but something like 0.05" seems like an even better setting to avoid the glue gap. (see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4992bEoNYI)

- When you "remove the fuzzies" how exactly do you use a toothbrush and dental picks to do this? Is the toothbrush used like sandpaper and the pick for splinters in tight spots? I ask because i'm having serious fit trouble with a V-Inlay over in this thread http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=28324 where I posted about some issues, and wondering if this could help me?
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby tvannaman2000 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:41 pm

My concern is with the starting depth of the male part of the inlay. I'm using a clearing bit (1/8" or 1/16") to remove a lot of the material first before I use the vbit and that first cut is too deep because of the start depth setting. Once that first pass is done, the remaining passes are fine. ie. I want to cut no more than .05" per pass but if my starting depth is already .05, it will try to cut .1 on the first pass. I guess I could go in and adjust my pass info, but if the starting depth is larger than your max depth setting for the bit, you risk breaking bits or munging wood. How do you people handle that?


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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby FixitMike » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:12 am

The description of how a V Bit cuts using the VCarve toolpath is available from the Aspire and VCarve help documents.

Go to "Help", "Help Contents" on the menu bar at the top of the VCarve (or Aspire) window. Click on the VCarve toolpath icons until you get to "VCave Toolpath".

The Vbit downward step maximum is controlled by the "Pass Depth"entry in the *Tool Database", while the sideways step maximum is controlled by the entries for "Pass Stepover". There is provision for a final pass to clean up the fuzzies.

*The Tool Database is found at: "Toolpaths-Tool Database" on the menu bar.
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby ThatGuyJosh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:42 pm

How small are some of the pieces you guys have had success doing inlays on? I’m planning to begin doing my headstock inlays on my cnc, I know it’s possible and I’m slowly stepping down in size as I practice (started out at 6 inches tall and need to eventually get down to a little less than 2”). But it would be encouraging for me to see/hear how small you are going. Thanks!
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby scottp55 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Hey Josh...same machine as me:)
I was hoping a luthier would chime in, but might as well show some of my first attempts from 2014-2015.
Their not super small, but some fine details.
Paul said to play with scrap first....so first board was Walnut with a 16" split in 24"
I THINK I made all the mistakes possible, but a good learning board:)
All these were done with an Onsrud 1/4" shank 60 degree with a .01" flat, and gluing was Rockler Medium CA.
When I next play with Vinlay, I'll probably try a 30degree and finer details.
Attachments
2014 FIRST AND SECOND ATTEMPT.jpg
2014 INLAY LEFT  VINLAY RIGHT.jpg
2014 ZEBRA 2.jpg
2014 VINLAY TREE.jpg
2015 TIN PURPLEHEART MAPLE 1.jpg
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby ThatGuyJosh » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:11 pm

Hey Scott! We’re friends over on the shopbot forum. I’m continually impressed by your work and by your willingness to help others and share your experiences. There’s a lot to learn between the software and the machining but I’m confident that I can get there with all the resources available. I’ve been focusing on getting my procedures swapped over to the cnc, most of the bodies are programmed, working on necks now, I think the inlay programming is done, just need to cut it and fine tune it. I find the important aspect is to enjoy the process and be willing to make mistakes and learn, thanks again my friend!
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby scottp55 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:12 pm

And I'll probably play more with a pocketed design like the outline of Maine where the original wood shows through.
Original sign was 24" long, and I did the whole male in one piece of 1/4" curly Maple stock....WRONG!
I thought I was being smart by using the cast iron left wing from my Unisaw to distribute pressure, BUT when I placed it on from the wheelchair, it seated crooked and I didn't notice :oops:
Only the Maine section was usable....I rejigged it and cut the "Made in Maine" section down .1" and cut the female again in steps so I could actually see the seating.
Then cut that portion down and cut again...this time I cut it into smaller sections for better seating/clamping and used Padauk.
I should have just skimmed the whole thing off and done it again, but my Dad REALLY liked the Maine section, and the customer/boss/Father is ALWAYS right! :)
So I just faired the 2 sections together:)
THAT one was TBI as you can see in the bottom of the Maine gaps...I like CA better, but maybe I'll go Thick CA in the future so I don't get a dark coloration on end grain.
Hope any of this helps.
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Attachments
2015 MISCLAMPED RAISED TEXT FIRST ATTEMPT.jpg
2015 inlay that clamping muck up.jpg
2015 MISCLAMPED RAISED TEXT DISSECTION.jpg
2015 MISCLAMPED RAISED TEXT SECOND CLAMP.jpg
2015 MISCLAMPED RAISED TEXT.jpg
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby scottp55 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:23 pm

Josh...If you ever want to take a cruise to Maine...I've got a spare bedroom, and shop is heated and actually part of the house.
Had people from Oz,NH,and next week another Mainer...They say I'm obnoxious, but not horribly :D
I've been meaning to get back into inlays(both this method and regular inlays for non-butterfly butterflies:)
Got a fair amount of exotics in my stash, and always wondered exactly how small I could go :)
Actually planned on doing inlaid buttons, but wound up getting the second Desktop EXACTLY the same as mine, and training a new operator and button finisher instead...when production was finally done and Dad gave the company away...I never got back to it.
My e-mail is on my Shopbot contact list.
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby Woodhelven » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:37 am

Thank you all for presenting this great forum. I have been using this technique for a while but have been plagued with gaps along the glue line. I thought it was a problem with my machine until zooming in to this rendering of the male part showed a mouse bite in the model. In this image it is on the ampersand in line with the end of the L. It seems to be in the level of the start depth. The tool path shows the tool coming up to that place and moving in, though it makes no sense. It is at the level of the start depth, so it would be cutting air, as far as the software knows. There is no feature there. It is the middle of a smooth curve, though coincidentally in node edit there is a node right there.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
MouseBite.png
Attachments
LB_Examination.crv
(583 KiB) Downloaded 46 times
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby Rcnewcomb » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:34 am

Woodhelven,

The "mouse bite" is because there are two nodes on top of each other on the curve of the ampersand. I dragged one of them off to show you where it is.
MouseBite.PNG


I attached a copy of the file with the offending node removed.
Attachments
LB_ExaminationV02.crv
(589.5 KiB) Downloaded 41 times
- Randall Newcomb
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out - another good day in the shop
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby Woodhelven » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:17 am

Randall
Thanks so much. That will be tough to find in the future, other than by visual inspection. Is there another forum or series of posts that might help with this "cleaning up the graphics" type of thing, 'cause, as I said, it happens a lot.
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Re: A simple way to make inlays

Postby Adrian » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:25 am

Use the Vector Validator tool in VCarve. That will pick up a lot of problems including that one.
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