scottp55 wrote:Zipped pics.
Hope this works...Computer acting wonky, and forum won't accept 7z or .rar?
I have looked through the files in the zipped files. Thanks for going to so much trouble for posting this info. I had figured that warming the canteen would be necessary. I only want to coat the canteen on the inside, probably inside the bung hole. The outside will have my usual poly and stain treatment.
The cold, snowy, weather has put a serious crimp on the canteen progress but I have been doing some research instead. JB Weld has a Water Weld epoxy putty product that I can get locally, it's for sealing leaks in potable water tanks, and I'll do some testing with it. Being a putty, it may not adhere to red oak very well if it is formulated too dry. The one other issue is that the color is off-white. I'll need to see if the stain will darken it enough to blend with the wood. It has a fairly high operating temperature for hot water tanks. The final water seal will still be the paraffin wax.
I found some leather straps at the local Tractor Supply in the horse accessories area that could be useful.
This fairly simple project is teaching me a few things also. The CNC design and parts cutting is the easy part of it. I still have some leather working tools from 40 years ago and about 1/3 of of a cowhide that may still be serviceable. My plan is to buy a fresh 1-1/2" wide latigo strap and whatever else is needed.
This project hasn't had any progress in at least two weeks due to cold, snow, and ice that has kept me from wanting to do any work in the shop. Today I glued the three inner rings together. I think there are enough bar clamps on it. Tomorrow I'll glue one of the side panels onto the stack.
While doing more research on these things it seems that bee's wax has been used to seal the inside of many of the old wooden canteens. I saw some blocks of it at a Hobby Lobby store on Saturday but did not buy any. I'll hold off on gluing the second side panel until I decide which it will be, paraffin or bee's wax, for this project. I want to coat the insides with molten wax before final gluing, and again after final gluing .
CarveOne,
Please don't take this the wrong way, a liitle rushed now but wanted to post(Dad's coming in 1/2 hour but I Owe you:)
Saying "Beeswax" is a little like saying "Wood" nowadays.
Used up the last of my 5lb block that I knew exactly where it came from and what it was last week, and we needed a new reliable source for the "wood butter" for buttons.
Pastilles (Pellets) are easiest to measure cold, and just got 2 new suppliers in Weds. In pics the wax on far right and the candles was triple filtered from a local orchard and the nearby blueberry plains hives. Smells pleasantly of honey/beeswax. Very slight taste when licked and is pleasant, BUT there.
Peak candle next to it is from Denver, prompt delivery. Pleasant odor, but less odor than my 10 yr old stuff. In mouth, Very slight taste, but pleasant and is listed as cosmetic grade. I like it and will probably be my new supplier for the buttons.
On left was an Ohio supplier, ZERO Beeswax odor and what odor there is, reminds me chemicals, the stuff "Feels" different and when I put it on my tongue, VERY unpleasant taste and that spot on my tongue "burned" for over 20 minutes. Will NOT reorder.
Beekeepers are really upset at Overseas Beeswax, as calling it 100% beeswax only means that 50+% IS 100% Beeswax and they are allowed to use 49% of whatever they want for fillers and additives to lower the price. ALSO overseas is LOADED with pesticides usually (especially Chinese) sometimes up to 20X what is allowed for cosmetic grade. Michaels(art supply store) had a batch a few years ago that was making people sick I seem to remember.
Also people LIE like a rug on places like E-bay and the Bulk stores.
Just saying that unless you know Exactly where it comes from AND do a "Taste Test", You may be better going a food grade paraffin such as sold in Grocery/Hardware stores for canning jams/preserves.
I'd hate to see that beautiful piece of craftsmanship be ruined at the last second:(
Thanks for all your help and suggestions,
scott
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I've learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone,so you have to please yourself
R.N.
Thanks for the info Scott. I don't want to use something that gives the water any taste, or causes the water to become toxic. I would be happier if my friend just wanted this to be just for display purposes. Paraffin is the direction that I was headed but I need to also find out more about it and how it is made.
I separated the inner waste material from the glued rings this morning and will be gluing the basket weave side panel to the stack of rings shortly. Alignment is pretty good so far. If I were making another of these I would consider increasing the wall thickness of the rings to 3/4" instead of 1/2". I rotated the center ring grain 90 degrees relative to the other rings to help make it stronger and not warp as easily.
If you can find a local bee farmer, you can be sure the wax is pure. The slight honey taste is because its hard to completely separate the honey from the wax. Won't hurt anything, but might flavour the water the first few times you use it.
I have a couple hives, and we usually throw the wax out (not enough to make it worth selling, but definitely enough for someone like you - maybe 10 lbs a year). I might start mixing it in with my finishes. The slight honey smell is a bonus on furniture.
rscrawford wrote:If you can find a local bee farmer, you can be sure the wax is pure. The slight honey taste is because its hard to completely separate the honey from the wax. Won't hurt anything, but might flavour the water the first few times you use it.
I have a couple hives, and we usually throw the wax out (not enough to make it worth selling, but definitely enough for someone like you - maybe 10 lbs a year). I might start mixing it in with my finishes. The slight honey smell is a bonus on furniture.
I have to second this. I have a couple of friends who are bee-keepers and sell both their wax and honey at local farmers' markets.
Have you considered epoxy laminating a blank and cutting all at once? especially a ring. It saves a lot of time and by using structural epoxy and you shouldn't ever have any glue creep on the joints. (disregard if you used epoxy for the glue up) I'm not sure how tall the side rings are? but I commonly glue up boxes (and clock rings) 1-1/2" thick (have done 2") and cut as 1 pc....... Your sides may be too tall? (2-1/4"? maybe)
The straight 1/2"dia. 2-flute bits yield a very smooth finish w/no chipout on top or bottom. This works especially well if screwing down the edge of blank and also the waste and not using tabs (I get minor chatter at the tabs, but 220gt cleans)
Your project is looking good, did you investigate the potable epoxy lining? I'm getting ready to order more epoxy and the company I linked sells a 2gal. kit (50:50 mix) of thixotropic (structural) for a decent price but the freight is to high on small quantities. Been using T-88 and may just order another qt. kit of it.....was free shipping and last a good while, just need to remember where I bought it
I bought some of the JB Water Weld putty and decided that it was not sticky enough and too thick (when thoroughly kneaded) for this particular job though all other attributes looked good.
There are three 3/4" thick rings that add up to 2-1/4" and I don't have a 1/4" cutter that will reach through it properly. I agree that pre-gluing the layers would have been less work. I could have used West Systems 105 resin and 206 hardener but I couldn't find any data about toxicity after it has cured for a few days. I used Titebond III Ultimate waterproof wood glue in an effort to keep the costs down.
Yes, I thought it was thick. West doesn't recommend their epoxy for potable water tanks although they kind of indicate its done! .......I personally wouldn't use West as it can amine blush with humidity during cure...... water soluble sticky surface......... Its hard to find an FDA certified epoxy in small quantities. Just watched a show of "How it's Made" showing mfg. of the aluminum water bottles, a nozzle sprayed a polymer coating inside while on way to an oven.
I finally got back to working on this project this morning.
I brushed 160 F paraffin wax into each side and bottom of the canteen and built up maybe 1/32" thickness. The hot wax soaked into the red oak pretty well. At a later time I will add some more hot wax to help seal the last glue joint better. The last side panel was then glued to the assembly tighter than a tick on a horse's behind. Sure am glad that part is over.
Sanding will be done tomorrow. Today I picked up a 1-3/4" wide latigo leather belt from Tractor Supply that will be used for the strap. I'll need a buckle for it. The decision was made to use cocobolo wood scraps to make blocks to glue to the canteen for the strap to slide through. The blocks will be shaped like a squarish letter "C". I'll install those with epoxy before staining the canteen with Early American liquid stain.
Today I made and installed the four cocobolo wood strap mounts. The mounts are glued with CA adhesive, then I drilled 1/8” holes through the mounts and into the canteen wall by 1/4”. CA was dribbled into the holes and a piece of 1/8” brass rod was tapped into the holes with a small hammer. This should be a very strong connection to the canteen and adds some brass highlights. The bottom two mounts allow the canteen to sit upright on a flat surface, without rolling, for refilling with water.
The latigo leather strap has a reddish color. It should contrast nicely with the Early American stain and polyurethane finish. If the recipient doesn’t like it he can easily replace it with a 1-3/4” wide brown leather one. The local Tractor Supply only had one of them this wide. Need to find a buckle for it.
The canteen needs final sanding, Early American stain, polyurethane, Java gel stain, and final coat of polyurethane. The neck will be made and installed last.
Tomorrow I'll glue one of the side panels onto the stack. 
