Reccomend a good brand of end mill

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Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:15 am

Hello I am looking for a new source of end mills. Previously I used a 5/16 finisher rougher for hogging and an 1/8 tapered end mill for finish work but my eBay vendor sold out and the price when up a lot. Everything I cut is hardwood mostly walnut and maple, High feed rate is a big plus. I have tried lots of generic 1/4 4 flute bits but these are all for metal and I have a feeling someone makes one for wood that would have a better geometry.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby PaulRowntree » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:21 am

Have you seen this on the Vectric site ?

http://www.vectric.com/company/useful-l ... liers.html
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 am

Yes I have , the thing is though there are subtle but important differences in what brand you get even when they have the same specs. Ive got some of these (1/4" 4Fl SE Carbide End mill ) from allindustrial.com which are surprisingly sharp for carbide but they scream horribly. I am hoping someone can reccomend a bit that is purpose built for high federates in hardwood.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby Adrian » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:02 am

If they're screaming then you've got the parameters wrong. You need to increase the feed rate or slow the RPM's down.

Each bit is different and it's rare to be able to use the same settings even though, in theory, the geometry should be the same. Even with exactly the same bit you may need to adjust RPM's and feed rates as it ages and get dull.

I've recently switched to using Whiteside bits as they are significantly cheaper than the ones I used before. So far so good with them.

A lot depends on whether you want high feedrates but don't care much about quality or whether quality is more important or somewhere in the middle.

Finish is more important to me than speed in hardwood so I use a three flute spiral carbide bit.

The Onsrud site is a good source for which type of bits work best in what materials - http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/FeedSpeeds
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby alan254 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:51 pm

I use mostly Whiteside bits, solid carbide and in all hard woods and they life is excellent.
They can be found at Woodworkerworld.net.

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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:04 pm

Thanks for the information, the woodworker website is dead but I found another place with google. From the bidding on ebay they must be very popular I will give them a try. The screaming bits are just different, Its the only carbide bit I have ever used that was sharp enough to cut my finger open, I have run them as fast as 200 ipm and all different rpm ranges without a change in pitch, at least it keeps the mice away.

[url]1/4" 4Fl SE Carbide End[/url]

I have been experimenting with running a roughing tool pass and then a profile with slightly more solid tabs and then the finishing pass last/ This has saved me a tool change and lots of time, unfortunately that means I cannot use a finisher rougher because it leaves a slightly uneven profile pass.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:08 pm

Can anyone tell me if a finisher rougher and a chip breaker are the same thing? thank you
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby Leo » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:14 pm

No they are not.

My knowledge base is from 40 years of industrial metal cutting and terminology is a little different than wood cutting.

A rougher - generally has a serrated outer edge on the periphery of the end mill. It helps in heavy material removal - particularly when cutting on the side of the end mill

A finisher - generally has a smooth side to the end mill and generally greater care is given when sharpening to ensure a smooth cut - again particularly when cutting on the side of the end mill.

A chip breaker is geometry added to the end mill to break up chips when cutting materials that form long stringy chips - like plastics and aluminum.

There are some cutter manufacturers that try to incorporate those 3 aspects into one tool. I am not a supporter or believer in those cutter geometries. Perhaps others have some longevity and some "time tested" results.

Using Rougher - Finisher in reference to one tool is a contradiction in terms.

Now - there is NO reason a finishing cutter cannot be used to rough out material - it's just not as efficient as a Pure Roughing cutter.

Roughing would require that a cutter have a bit more gullet - so that the higher volume of chips could be evacuated.

You will see references to single flute cutters. In that tool - there would be the MOST gullet clearance and allow the largest amount of chip evacuation.

I think you mentioned 4 flute cutters -- You CAN use those to cut wood - but not at high feedrates and not at the chiploads general to woodworking. The tool will get clogged very easily.

I don't know if this was information you were asking for or not.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:41 pm

Thanks that helps to clear things up, I always thought the name was odd but decided it was a compromise between to cutting styles, here is a similar one http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-8-X-5-8-LOC-1-1-4-OAL-3-3-4-4-FL-Melin-Rougher-Finisher-M42-SE-End-Mill-/121276760644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3ca88244 maybe it is just a less common name for the same thing, I think they are made mostly for aluminum.


I had very good luck running mine it was extremely quiet no vibration and put significantly less load on my spindle and had almost no tear out you just needed to increase the machining allowance slightly.

Am I correct that a chip breaker would not have any advantage cutting wood?
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby scottp55 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:44 pm

Sawdustandsmoke, Not sure if you are more interested in quality or speed, but good luck with Centurion FEM's. Also look down this thread until you see Paul N.'s chipbreaker/finisher pic's--very impressed by pocket finish, It's a little better than the Centurion FEM downspiral I just started using and am quite happy with but don't know about longevity yet. Mainly cherry/sugar maple here.http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19464&highlight=chipbreaker+finisher
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby Will Williamson » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:56 pm

Go here for a good description from a manufacturer of wood cutting tools.http://www.vortextool.com/index.cfm?fus ... B9B4196952
In regards to wood cutting,The ultimate test for a cutting tool, is to be able to touch the tool with your finger just after cutting.
If you can touch the tool without burning your finger you have the speeds and feed right. Just be careful, if it is very Hot, you can feel the heat without touching it.
Some folks use lazier thermometers for this purpose.
I run these Roughers and chipbreakers as often as possible, they cut wood much easier with less stress and strain on your machine.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby Leo » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:23 pm

SawdustandSmoke wrote:Thanks that helps to clear things up, I always thought the name was odd but decided it was a compromise between to cutting styles, here is a similar one http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-8-X-5-8-LOC-1-1-4-OAL-3-3-4-4-FL-Melin-Rougher-Finisher-M42-SE-End-Mill-/121276760644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3ca88244 maybe it is just a less common name for the same thing, I think they are made mostly for aluminum.


I had very good luck running mine it was extremely quiet no vibration and put significantly less load on my spindle and had almost no tear out you just needed to increase the machining allowance slightly.

Am I correct that a chip breaker would not have any advantage cutting wood?


The EBAY cutter IS one of those tools where the manufacturer tries to make a compromise tool. I am not a fan.

The other cutter you show in your picture of purely a roughing cutter - BUT - it is also NOT a carbide cutter - it is HSS - and I would not use that on a high RPM router.

No - a chip breaker is not going to add very much to the performance of a wood cutting tool.
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Re: Reccomend a good brand of end mill

Postby SawdustandSmoke » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:27 pm

Thanks very much for your time I found the bit mentioned in the thread here http://www.beckwithdecor.com/index_files/Cutters.htm Ill pick one up and give it a try.

Onsrud 80$ 67-200
Beckwork 29$ bdp015
Onsrud 42$ 60-951

BDP015 is our new 1/4” Chipbreaker Finisher
Two flute, Solid Carbide Downcut Chipbreaker Finisher
With a 1” LOC, 1/4” shank and 2.5” OAL
Designed to allow for a faster feed rate than a conventional 2 flute, while giving a reduced cutting force and still maintaining a smooth finish.
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