Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

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Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby MayoSouthElgin » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:50 am

I have Aspire 3.5
I've read through the forum after searching "wrapped" and I haven't found anyone else trying to do what I would like to do.
Basically I'm wanting to design a rolling pin which will cut a continuously repeating shape. Almost like what is called tessellations. What makes it difficult is the shape itself. Think of a tire tread but instead of raised treads, they are pocketed and the space between tread is going to remain.

I've been having problems getting the edge to meet itself where it wraps.
What determines how far around any given design wraps? (Simple cylindrical wrap - not spiral)

Is there any video training for the wrapped job functions?
If not, other than the general info in the .pdf files on the gadgets help page, is there any other info explaining how to accomplish various wrap ideas?

Questions I have, include what are probably basic mathematical concepts however, I have little to no grasp of algebra, geometry, calculus, quantum physics, etc! I would love it if there was an app that was "Wrapping for dummies" where a series of questions and fill in fields would result in the perfect wrap job for any given design.

Does the job size page width have to be the circumference of the cylinder? (Assuming an indexer along the Y axis)
Can the wrap overlap itself if the design is made so that vectors nest but don't overlap? If so, how is this accomplished?
Do you change the job dimension width or the design width or cylinder diameter?

Does the material thickness in job set up have to be 1/2 the diameter of the cylinder?
Does the Z origin in the wrapped job setup have to be at the cylinder axis? When would you want to select the surface?

I have tried various wrapped job settings, changed my design numerous times and I must be making the same mistakes in setting up the job or the design or both because I keep getting results that are not going to work.
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I can post the design however I don't really want someone to just do it for me - I would rather learn how to do it. It just seems like I keep making the same mistake and I don't know what the mistake is!
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby mezalick » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:46 am

MayoSouthElgin ,
The wrapping concept is best explained as if you took a tube , sliced it down the long axis and uncurled it.
That is you 2-D workplace.

As you mentioned , the job size width is the circumference.
That is determined but the numbers you input when setting up the project
I’m not sure I understand your question about the vectors overlapping and nesting...
The Material thickness being 1/2 the diameter ?? remember that you are working with a cylinder, and if using the center of the material as the Z0, then yes.

Have you looked at Randall’s tutorial ?
http://www.222artisans.com/Rotary/RotaryYaxis.html

It’s very good.
Are you looking for something like what I have attached ?
Let me know if I can help further..If you want to send me the file, I can write a short tutorial for you..

Michael
mezalick@nni.com

Sorry, I wrongly put Paul's name for Randall,,,Both very talented people,,easy to get them confused.. :oops:
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wrapped.JPG
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby MayoSouthElgin » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:45 pm

Thank you for the response and the link - it was very helpful.

Your example design is somewhat similar to what I intend to do, with the differences being:
My "puzzle pieces" would each have 1/8 inch outline or gap between pieces. The pieces would be pocketed, and the gap would wind up being the surface of the cylinder.

The issues that come up with my design is that it doesn't wrap to the beginning
possibly because it seems like it's not pocketing the pieces which extend past the job width.
Looking at your design, I noticed the parts which are outside of your job width are identical to the parts which begin inside the x=0. I tried recreating that concept in my design and I noticed not only did it not meet back at x=0 but that the area not machined appeared to be the pieces which overlapped the job width.

I realize this is hard to visualize through text only - so I'm emailing you the file.
Perhaps it's not possible to pocket parts which extend past the job width when it's a wrapped job?
I tried redesigning the file so that the pieces at the vertical edge were sliced in half, deleted the parts which were outside of the job width, however I think this creates an outline or gap of 1/4 inch when the pieces wrap and meet. It was difficult to see. My objective was to create a seamless looking pattern when it's rolled across clay or cookie dough.

Anyways I do appreciate the advice. It will be interesting seeing how to accomplish this. It may involve other strategies I hadn't even considered.
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby Rcnewcomb » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:45 pm

The key to doing a repeating on an indexer is that the design and the diameter of the material have to be proportional. Part of your design will be split. It doesn’t have to split perfectly in half – though that does make alignment easier. This works for 3D designs as well. V-Carved designs are a bit more complicated.
RollingPinV2Vectors.PNG

I’ve included a very simple example that may be helpful.
RollingPinV2.jpg


Please ask more questions after you have looked it over.
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RollingPinV2.crv3d
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- Randall Newcomb
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby PaulRowntree » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:35 am

In un-wrapped projects, designs that are outside the material get toolpathed normally, and the g-code goes outside the material's XY limits. If this is also true of wrapped projects, could you avoid having to actually cut up the vectors that pass over the 360 degree edge ? This might simplify the toolpathing ...

I haven't tried this BTW ...
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2014-02-23 20_47_10-Aspire {Paul Rowntree} - [RollingPinV2-1].jpg
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WarpDriver, StandingWave, Topo and gadgets available at PaulRowntree.weebly.com
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby Rcnewcomb » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:59 am

Paul,

Unfortunately the previewer doesn't render outside of the material area so you have to guestimate the result by looking at the wireframe generated by the toolpaths.
- Randall Newcomb
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby MayoSouthElgin » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:53 am

I think I may have finally solved my wrapped job problem after tweaking and adjusting my design.
I've learned some things in the process -
Pocketed shapes will not translate into the tool path wrapped view if they are laying outside of the job.
This appears to be different than the puzzle piece example posted by Michael? Were those pieces pocketed or some other tool path used?
Shapes which nest will overlap x=0 if they are closed vectors and if the job width = the circumference of the cylinder.
The material thickness should be 1/2 the diameter of the cylinder (not 1/2 the circumference)

When creating the tool path I don't know if I should select "Project toolpath onto 3D model". Is this only for the preview or does it affect the tool path creation and produce different machining results?

It appears you can make adjustments to the job size and material thickness after creating the wrapped job set up. Would this mess things up? Tool paths have to be recreated after changes, so I think it would be OK...?
Attachments
RollingPin.png
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby mezalick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:17 am

Mayo,
Email sent with my suggestions.
I think you're on the right track.
My posted work was done with components, not vectors to create pockets.
It would have worked either way, but V-Carving would be the fastest way.

Michael
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby dealguy11 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:58 pm

Projecting onto the 3d model actually affects the toolpaths. If your entire project is being done with 2d toolpaths, then there is no need to use this option.
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Re: Wrapping designs - wrapped job set up

Postby MayoSouthElgin » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:48 pm

Thank you to everyone who posted replies.
I think I got my mind set straight - as Cool Hand Luke used to say...
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