G84 rigid tapping cycles?

This forum is for general discussion about Aspire

G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Gundawg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Will Aspire ever support rigid tapping? I use Aspire for my business to program my CNC router and use it also with my VMC that has rigid tapping. Aspire seems to do everything I need except tapping. I have to program at the control for tapping which really slows things up. I just recently with the help of a member here got a PP to work with my Siemens 828D control on my VMC and so far so good I just wish I could add the ability to do tapping with this software.
Gundawg
Vectric Craftsman
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:27 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopSabre IS 510/Trak Bed Mill/Sharp VMC

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Adrian » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:48 pm

Can you do them via comments in the toolpath and changes to the PP? That's they way a lot of people add toolpath specific G codes.
User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
 
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Gundawg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:02 pm

Adrian wrote:Can you do them via comments in the toolpath and changes to the PP? That's they way a lot of people add toolpath specific G codes.


I am not sure what you mean by this. Can you post an example?

What I plan to try and do for now is to add an extra drilling path and edit that cycle hand coding the G84 cycles but having tapping as a feature in the software would be huge for me and I am sure others.

I got started with a router and then after some confidence from using a router stepped into a VMC I know other folks have done the same. Learning a whole new CAD-CAM system just to get tapping and that extra cost doesn't make sense for me. I love using the Vectric software it is so intuitive.
Gundawg
Vectric Craftsman
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:27 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopSabre IS 510/Trak Bed Mill/Sharp VMC

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Adrian » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:10 pm

You put the code as text in the tool notes or toolpath notes as desired and then edit the post processor to embed the comment at the appropriate place using the relevant notes placeholder. No idea if it would work for your needs or not but it's something I've suggested to others in the past for custom tool specific gcodes and it's worked for them.
User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
 
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby DJ-Bino » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi,
The problem that thread milling is missing has been known for some time. I had asked for it in 2016.

Vectric simply lacks the drilling and threading cycles. (normal drilling and thread milling cutters are not supported) But you also have to mention that it would be a very big effort to maintain all the cycles in the postprocessors for each controller.

Therefore, I hope that soon there will be support for thread milling with molds.

I borrowed the picture from sorotec.de :oops:
German Vectric product dealer

gewinde_massl.jpg


I think thread cutting would be a real improvement for many other users of Vectric products.

It would then synonymous not so many users looking for other CAM programs that provide this feature.

Best regards
DJ Bino
User avatar
DJ-Bino
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Germany
Model of CNC Machine: Versatil 1800

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby IslaWW » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:27 pm

Mike...
You should be able to add tapping code to a tool or tools via the tool notes addon. OR, you could make a tapping post that entered the code in the plunge & retract (or first) sections. I did this for our HAAS at my previous job.

DJ...
You can do thread milling now using a carefully setup toolpath and tool via the IS profile with continuous spiral toolpath. Lead in, lead out
Gary Campbell
CNC Technology & Training
The Ultimate Woodworking Machine
GCnC411 (at) gmail.com
User avatar
IslaWW
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:42 pm
Location: Marquette, MI, USA
Model of CNC Machine: The Ultimate Woodworking Machine

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby TReischl » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:41 pm

Not meaning to be snarky or a wiseguy. . . .

I just looked at the Vectric website. I could not find anywhere on the site that touted doing mechanical work. Virtually everything is geared towards sign making, organic models, etc. Why anyone who needs to do things like thread milling, back spot facing, etc would buy this software is beyond me. It is just not equipped to handle those sorts of operations. Right after adding thread milling someone would be asking for simulation that prevents or shows the collet colliding with the workpiece.

There are plenty of packages on the market that are built for machine shop type operations, some of them really inexpensive, IMHO Vectric products are not targeted at the market.

I wrote a subprogram quite some time ago that does thread milling. It is a simple matter to set the variables and then call the subprogram from the main program. But yea, I get it, if you are doing lots of tapped holes it would be much better to have it right in the software.

What a lot of us forget is that a software company looks at marketing. The very first thing they do is decide WHAT market they want to address. Then they devote their resources to accommodating that market. From what I can see on their website it is very apparent that they are not targeting the machine shop market. Instead they are more interested in sign people and relief carving. I could be wrong. . . .but that is the impression I get.
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones
User avatar
TReischl
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 2864
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:04 pm
Location: Leland NC
Model of CNC Machine: 8020 Build 48X36X10 RP 2010 Screenset

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby DJ-Bino » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:33 am

Hi,

@Garry ..
This is just an isolated solution for me and the effort is very high.

@TReischl
Nowhere is it written that the Vectric Aspire or the other products have or have a claim to mechanical engineering properties.
You are completely right.

As I said above, there are other CAM programs that are designed.

I'm only concerned with a simple threading.
I want to be able to make exactly the same stuff as in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUMbLY_zUhM

Aspire is not a mechanical engineering CAM should not be synonymous.
I think you misunderstood me there. I do not do mechanical engineering but I work with wood.

Best regards
DJ Bino
User avatar
DJ-Bino
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Germany
Model of CNC Machine: Versatil 1800

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Adrian » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:13 am

Paul has a thread gadget - http://paulrowntree.weebly.com/gadgets.html - not sure if it will do what you want but if you only want simple threading in a program like Aspire rather than using a machinist style program then it might be suitable.
User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
 
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Leo » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:48 pm

Can you use a TapMatic head?
Imagine the Possibilities of a Creative mind

www.leosworkshop.com
User avatar
Leo
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:02 am
Location: East Freetown, Ma.
Model of CNC Machine: 1300 x 1300 x 254

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Tailmaker » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:48 pm

I created a spreadsheet a while ago to calculate the parameters for triangular or ACME threads using a spiral tool path or a fluting tool path. Unfortunately, the spiral tool path method requires g-code edit since the lead-in and lead-out option that Gerry mentioned will disable the spiral toolpath (not sure why Vectric does not allow that). The fluting tool path method does not need the code edit and you can cut single or multistart threads.
Admittedly a bit complicated but it works without a gadget. You can find the Excel file and a description here: http://www.tailmaker.net/threading-with-vectric-vcarvepro-and-aspire.html
Tailmaker
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:40 am
Location: Pasadena, CA
Model of CNC Machine: Home Built 4-axis Router

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby DJ-Bino » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 am

Hello,
@Leo
Yes, I know the TAPMATIC threading devices and I could also use them. However, only the SM2 and NC0 all others have a too thick shaft.

But I do not want to use taps but prefer to use thread milling with the tool shown above.

@Adrian
Yes, exactly this gadget of Paul I meant in my last post. The approach is very good. Unfortunately, this is very geared to the inch thread and a bit difficult to handle. That's why I wanted Vectric to incorporate this feature.

Simple tapping with a tap is no problem. But I also want larger internal threads
and can make the nut thread to it.

This is only about the thread milling.

@Tailmaker
Thanks for the Excel file I'll take a look.

Thanks again to all for the suggestions

Best regards
DJ Bino
User avatar
DJ-Bino
Vectric Apprentice
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Germany
Model of CNC Machine: Versatil 1800

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Gundawg » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:25 pm

I think some of you are a little short sided because it is not something you need. I realize Aspire is a router based system but by adding threading features it opens the software to a new customer base. I have looked at CAD CAM systems that are designed for milling operations most are very expensive and difficult to learn. There are enough guys out there with CNC metal working equipment in their garages to support these features.

Thread milling and rigid tapping are completely different so is the use of a tapping head I have a tapping head and it would be like going back to using a hand held router instead of a spindle. I can add hand coded G code.

I am not sure how to add notes to tool paths can someone point me to the information about that? I looked in the help manual and did not see where this information is located.
Gundawg
Vectric Craftsman
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:27 am
Model of CNC Machine: ShopSabre IS 510/Trak Bed Mill/Sharp VMC

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby Adrian » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:53 pm

You can add toolpath notes by clicking on the Toolpath Summary icon (the clock) on the Toolpaths tab. Select the toolpath in the top box and enter the notes below.

You can also double click on the word Toolpaths (in bold at the top of the toolpath list) on the Toolpaths tab which will show the Toolpath Management dialog where you can enter notes in the same way.
User avatar
Adrian
Vectric Archimage
 
Posts: 9594
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Model of CNC Machine: ShopBot PRS Alpha 96x48

Re: G84 rigid tapping cycles?

Postby TReischl » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:24 pm

Gundawg wrote:I think some of you are a little short sided because it is not something you need. I realize Aspire is a router based system but by adding threading features it opens the software to a new customer base.

Just how many new users would be purchasing the software in order to do thread milling?

I have looked at CAD CAM systems that are designed for milling operations most are very expensive and difficult to learn. There are enough guys out there with CNC metal working equipment in their garages to support these features.

Thread milling and rigid tapping are completely different so is the use of a tapping head I have a tapping head and it would be like going back to using a hand held router instead of a spindle. I can add hand coded G code.

Just how many different threads are you planning on cutting? I am pretty sure your control supports some variables so why not "handcode" a variable program that would allow you to spec different threads? As I mentioned above I did that some time ago for when I need to do threads. Now whenever I need a milled thread I just set the variables and cut it. Pretty much no matter how you cut it a thread milling operation is a program unto itself. That cutter is not used for anything else so incorporating the operation into a large program still means a tool change. I like that I do it separately because as we all know threads can be a fussy thing and running it as a separate program allows tweaks when needed.

I am not sure how to add notes to tool paths can someone point me to the information about that? I looked in the help manual and did not see where this information is located.


Besides all that you have to know that thread milling is probably not going to show up anytime in the near future to help you out. Like most companies Vectric has limited resources. There are tons of other features that a much larger user base could make use of. One that comes to my mind is adaptive clearing.

There is no point in calling others that disagree with you "short sighted". A better term would be "realistic".


By the way, I am curious why you titled this thread "Rigid Tapping Cycle"? Thread milling is not a rigid tapping cycle by any stretch of the imagination.

"What does rigid tapping mean?
Rigid tapping means the tap can remain rigid throughout the tapping cycle. It can be held in a chuck just like an endmill or a drill. The machine spindle locks in with the feedrate just like when you are screw cutting.Aug 17, 2016"
"If you see a good fight, get in it." Dr. Vernon Jones
User avatar
TReischl
Vectric Wizard
 
Posts: 2864
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:04 pm
Location: Leland NC
Model of CNC Machine: 8020 Build 48X36X10 RP 2010 Screenset

Next

Return to Aspire - General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests