Model resolution - default settings

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Model resolution - default settings

Postby ZipperHead55 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:43 pm

I did a quick search of the forum to see if this was asked/addressed but didn't find anything directly related, so here is my question:

Would it be possible in future releases to have ALL of the different model resolutions (standard, X3, X7, X25, X50) available whenever one creates a new project? I was vaguely aware of it previously, but I was used to just starting a file the regular way, and since old habits die hard, I continued to do that, and I kept on my merry way (for the last 18 months or so). Some of the models I use are quite complex (over 5 million faces) so I have started using the higher resolutions to try to do these projects justice. But..... I will invariably forget to hold down the Shift key (when I select "Create new project") and then get onto all of the steps of the job, and then invariably remember that I forgot to select the higher resolutions, and just say "Too late now...." and then cut out the piece and then think "what if?" after the piece is finished and I am stuck sanding out some of the areas that would have been smoothed out or machined better if I had remembered to select one of the (usually hidden) higher resolutions.

So, with all that whining out of the way, would it be possible to have all the default resolutions available on a new project? I know that they are hidden to protect us from ourselves: "Why did my computer just crash?!?" when one imports a ginormous model at x50 resolution on a computer running 1GB of memory and using WindowsXP, but computers have evolved quite a bit since Aspire has been released, and having these higher resolution options available by default would likely increase customer (and client) satisfaction when people create crisper, cleaner models. I have seen a LOT of forum posts where people don't realize that they have the option of accessing these "hidden" settings (I saw one post where someone questioned what other hidden settings might be available, and that made me start thinking along those lines).

Yes, if someone were to follow ALL of the tutorials and/or RTFM, this would be common knowledge, but I think that 99.9% of us are guilty of just hopping in and "giving 'er" and then cherry picking what knowledge we need to attain (note: that describes me to a T).

Thanks for taking the time to read this,

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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby dealguy11 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:16 pm

These kinds of requests are best sent directly to support@vectric.com. This is a user forum, so we don't choose what's in or out of the software.

I think Vectric's reasoning on this is that the highest 2 resolutions can slow things down a lot, and for most models there is no reason to choose them. By making them harder to get to, it reduces the frustration of the user base who may assume it's a good idea to choose the highest possible resolution. You may agree or disagree with that, just stating what I think the reasons are. I have done large models in these resolutions, and sometimes you can take a restroom break while things are recalculating, especially if it's an older computer.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby Adrian » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:19 pm

dealguy11 wrote:I think Vectric's reasoning on this is that the highest 2 resolutions can slow things down a lot, and for most models there is no reason to choose them. By making them harder to get to, it reduces the frustration of the user base who may assume it's a good idea to choose the highest possible resolution.

I can't find the post from Vectric about it at the moment but that is exactly the reason they've given in the past.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby ZipperHead55 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:33 pm

Thanks guys.

I don't always like emailing support because I reason that there are people out there that have the same question that I have, but there is no where to find it (Google search, for example) so they never find out the answer. As well, it must be a pain in the butt for the support people to answer the same question over and over (because the information isn't readily available).

Also, I gain insight from other users on possible reasons why things are the way they are (i.e their personal experiences, etc), whereas the company might send a stock answer that doesn't get into the nuts and bolts of the reason (perhaps they can't answer it, if it's a proprietary thing, for example). Or they're lazy, and getting information from them becomes a fishing expedition...

Anyway, I semi-understand the logic, but it seems that there is a number of people who don't know it exists (the higher resolution settings) and they aren't using the software and their machine to the full potential.

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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby TReischl » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:59 pm

Ahhh, well, I suppose there is another way to look at this in our "please spoon feed me" age....

Not only should one RTFM, but it PTRTFM. PT for "Pays To". Heck, I have been using Corel since V1 and I am still reading stuff about it and learning. I rtfm, but I do not remember how to do things, only that they can be done.

Frankly, I have an almost reverse problem with the super duper high resolutions. Every now and then I use one and sure enough, the next time I start the software I don't bother to look and then when I start calculating. . . .grrrrr!!!!!

BTW, about a hundred years ago or so I spent a really great birthday in your fair city. Bunch of nice people where I was staying and they made sure I enjoyed my birthday. I have nice memories of your town. Landing was a little tricky, it was windy as all get out and the pilot had to make three approaches before he could set it down. Had a few folks doing the whole white knuckle thing. LOL.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby mtylerfl » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:19 pm

TReischl wrote:...

Frankly, I have an almost reverse problem with the super duper high resolutions. Every now and then I use one and sure enough, the next time I start the software I don't bother to look and then when I start calculating. . . .grrrrr!!!!!
...


Hi Ted,

I’m not understanding your ...grrrrr!

Are you saying after you have created a file at the either of the two highest resolutions, a new file created after that will be “automatically set” at the resolution you used? (without having to hold down the Shift key?)
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby TReischl » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:39 am

mtylerfl wrote:
TReischl wrote:...

Frankly, I have an almost reverse problem with the super duper high resolutions. Every now and then I use one and sure enough, the next time I start the software I don't bother to look and then when I start calculating. . . .grrrrr!!!!!
...


Hi Ted,

I’m not understanding your ...grrrrr!

Are you saying after you have created a file at the either of the two highest resolutions, a new file created after that will be “automatically set” at the resolution you used? (without having to hold down the Shift key?)


Not exactly Mike. What mine does after using super duper rez is that it then starts automatically in Hi Res (7x). Most of the time I do not need 7X. And yup, there is not a huge performance differential but it is there nonetheless and I notice it. I do not have the fastest computers on the planet which does not help either. If I really needed to work in Hi or above all the time I would buy a new puter.

The other thing I failed to mention is that software "bloat" is a real thing and comes in a couple of different forms. One of them is putting every option up on the screen, the other is adding every perceived useful feature into the software. There is a way to control the first by allowing the user to customize the interface which brings its own issues. The second eventually leads to the software becoming clunky to use and eventually a slimmer model comes along.

Michael: AHAH! Your question got me wondering. Interesting. If I was in standard and close out. Then open in super duper mode and close out the software reopens in standard. If was in Hi before using super duper then it opens the next file in Hi. Evidently that is what has been happening to me. I put up with it because I was to far along, save out and then the whole cycle repeats itself. What I gotta do is pay attention, shift in to standard when I start or whatever I feel is appropriate. Thanks for the nudge!
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby mtylerfl » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:53 am

Ok, Ted.

I wanted to be sure everyone understood that the two highest resolutions won't ever come up "automatically" (except when opening an existing file set as such) - the user must purposely direct the software to access those via holding the Shift key whilst clicking either "New" file or clicking on the "Set Job Dimensions and Origin" icon.

I would recommend to anyone doing modeling that they DO use the Very High (7x) resolution as a minimum...and of course, make the modeling workspace just big enough to surround the models being created so as to take full advantage of the pixel resolution contained within the model. For your reference and just a FYI, the majority of models created and sold by Design and Make are created at the Very High (7x) resolution.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby TReischl » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:12 am

mtylerfl wrote: For your reference and just a FYI, the majority of models created and sold by Design and Make are created at the Very High (7x) resolution.


Ok, now I am confused! What is the difference between a "for your reference" and a "FYI"??? Which has precedence? If given a choice should I consult my Reference file, or my Information file first? This is important! Ok, ok. . . LOL.

Yup, the only time those models would be a problem is if someone scaled one up to fit on a 5 X 10 sheet of plywood. And even then it might not matter if the model was cut with a larger ball nose mill.

I sometimes get the feeling that folks think they are getting more bang for their buck if they use the highest resolution possible for everything. Most of the stuff I do is smaller so even the standard scale works fine for me most of the time. It also depends on the size of ball mill a person runs over the model.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby ZipperHead55 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:58 am

I know that for the average person, using average models, the default settings will work, but I generally use custom made, very high resolution models (some are over 5 million polys). Again, I got in the habit of using what was presented to me as default (the standard ones that come up when creating a file using the normal method), so I never thought much about it much until I started reading forum posts about increasing the quality of the finished pieces, and the issue of using the higher resolution settings came up. I used the higher resolution settings on a relatively simple model, so it wasn't readily apparent if there was an increase in quality, but I did a higher resolution model at the lower (x7) resolution and was stumped on why there was "jaggies" on the curved surfaces (on an 18" tall model), then the light bulb went off, and I realized that the resolution settings were causing this. I always use draft on models that I can't easily finish with a profile pass, and sometimes I like having the sloped sides anyways (vs vertical sides), but I dread sanding, and I dread removing any more material than I absolutely have to (i.e material removal with Dremel tool, files, etc, before sanding can take place). I am not artistic, so I let the machine do the heavy lifting (even if it has to run for a few extra hours) as much as possible, so hamstringing myself by not using the highest settings available is doubly painful: I paid a lot for this software, I pay a lot for some of the models I have, and my machines and the bits aren't cheap, so why create more work for myself?!?

Anyway, since I seem to be somewhat of an outlier, I will just have to be more vigilant about making sure I start my more complex projects in the "high res" modes (hitting Shift while selecting "Create a new model" isn't THAT difficult, but then again we are all creatures of habit, and it takes quite a while before things become a habit....).

Thanks again for your insight, guys: that's why I posted it here, rather than "stovepiping" the question to support at Vectric.

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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby martin54 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:15 am

Allen from what I have read on other posts Vectric keep lists of feature requests from users & if enough people are asking for something then they look at the practicallity of it so it is important you contact support with your request. I can't say for sure but from what I have read some of the features & changes made over the years have come from requests by users.

Anyway, I semi-understand the logic, but it seems that there is a number of people who don't know it exists (the higher resolution settings) and they aren't using the software and their machine to the full potential.


Yes I am sure there will be some but possibly not that many, if you look at what people post in the gallery for both Aspire & Vcarve you will see that most of what gets posted is small & using a higher resolution would have done nothing but slow the computer down. As has already been said I am sure that if available from set up form as default there would be quite a lot of new people to the software selecting the higher resolutions thinking they will get better results.
I have never had to use either of them for any of the 3D work I have done in the time I have had my machine but I know they are there should I require them :lol: :lol:

Possibly one of those things where you will get questions either way :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby dah79 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:44 pm

So just a quick question on this. When using the models included in the clip art, is there any advantage of using the 25 or 50x higher resolution or is it mainly for when creating your models from scratch? I know I have read that you should keep your material setup size close to the size of the model you are working with. Thanks
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby martin54 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:13 pm

Depends on what size you make the model Dave, if you were working on something large say like a kids bed or a Business sign for someone then you might want to look at increasing the resolution. Most of what I have done has required reducing the size of the imported model or only increasing its size by a small amount & the High 7x resolution has been more than adequate for that :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have you watched this tips & trick Tutorial Dave??

https://support.vectric.com/tips-and-tr ... video_id=9
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby dah79 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:34 pm

Thanks Martin, had not seen that video. I also followed the link towards the end of the video. I will study that a bit more.
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Re: Model resolution - default settings

Postby SteveNelson46 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:48 pm

I think there has been a lot of discussion on model resolution but not recently. If I understand it correctly, when a project is created at a lower resolution and then models are created, increasing the resolution will not affect the already created models. In other words, any models created in the project before increasing the resolution are not affected. The project resolution will change but the models in it will not. That's why Michael recommended to create the project at a high resolution and keep the size to only slightly larger than the models in it. Then down-size the resolution after the models are made. The bottom line is that if you are using a low powered computer you cannot create models at a lower resolution and then increase it later.
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