Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

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Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:13 pm

I have always used the top of the material when setting my tools to zero. I wanted to try using the same side in Aspire 9+ and set up a piece to carve. Top side carved well. Flipped over and referenced the top of my spoil board. Machine wants to go to z zero somewhere in the material. I tried adding the thickness of the material to the bit length and setting that in the material setup, but still not allowing the tool to clear the piece. Only broke one bit so far, but would like to get it right. Can someone help?
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby ohiolyons » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:37 pm

Aspire allows you zero anyway you want. There are tutorials that you should watch.

Vectric recommends top and bottom for 2 sided if memory serves me correct so that you are zeroing off the same face.

There are clearance dimensions you can set up so that the bit doesn't hit the edge and break. Tutorials cover this too.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:40 pm

I have watched all the tutorials, some several times. I don't recall seeing how to set things referencing off the same side. I will check them again. Can you direct me to one that shows that technique? Thanks.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby flying_flip » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:13 pm

See image below.
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zero_off_same_side.jpg
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:22 pm

I did use that option and zeroed off the same side. However when I try to send the machine to home, it tries to go the center of my piece of material instead of 1" above the material. I need to know how to set my other settings so the bit ends up above the material before starting. I am watching the video on the chess piece again to see if I missed it there.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:44 pm

I am using Mach 3 for machine control. I am wondering if my z home is set in Mach 3 so when I start from the spoil board, it is trying to take the bit to the setting in Mach 3 since I haven't started the G code yet to get those setting into the machine. When I zero the bit to the spoil board and press Go Home, the machine tries to go to 0,0,1", but 1" is halfway into my material. I think this is a Mach question and not an Aspire question.???
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby garylmast » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:12 pm

I use the Material Surface, but leave the "Zero off same side" unchecked. That way it will zero from the surface on both sides.

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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:40 pm

That is what I have done in the past, but I wanted to try the zero of the same side option and can't figure out how to get the machine to home to the safe z above the material. I am using the center of the material. I just watched the chess piece video again and Becki doesn't really address this issue. I have watched the dolphin video several times and this problem is glossed over in that one too. I am missing something and don't know what.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby martin54 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 am

It depends how you have mach3 set up & how are you using mach3 ? if you are setting up your x, y & z 0 setting in mach3 for side one using the top of the material & then you hit "Go to Zero" the machine will move to the corner (or centre) of your material black on the surface of the material, if for side 2 you are using the spoilboard for your z zero then if you hit "Go to zero" it will move to a position with the same x, y position BUT a z zero position on the spoilboard so if any part of your material block is in the way it will obviously try to drive through the block :lol: :lol:

So when you do your second side don't press " Go to Zero" once you have set your new z zero position :lol: :lol:

The machine will know where it is in relation to your material block. In the vectric toolpath set up you can set a home position so when the g code is run the first thing the machine will do is move to this position :lol: :lol: first move if mach3 is set up correctly will be to raise the z axis so when the machine moves to the home position vectric tells it to the tool will lift to a height that clears the block :lol: :lol:
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Thank you , Martin. I am so used to sending the machine to home before starting my projects, I just had a mental block. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense. Have a great day. Now I can finish my project.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby martin54 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:28 pm

I would guess that the reason the tutorials don't go into a lot of detail is because there is a lot of different CNC control software & they probably work slightly differently.
Plus it can be down to peoples understanding of various terms as well, my understanding of a home position is machine zero, for me the bottom left corner of my table with the z axis at the top of its travel. This is a reference point & each time I switch my machine on & reference all home it will move to this location, from there the machine knows exactly where the spindle is in relation to the table.
From my understanding the zero position you set on your material block is a work co-ordinate not a home position :lol: :lol: :lol: It makes little difference as far as setting up your 2 sided job goes though the process is the same.

When you load your g-code into mach3 you should see that the first move the machine makes is from where ever you have parked/left the spindle to the centre of your material block (if your using the centre) & the z axis should move to what ever distance you have it set above the material surface. From there if you have spindle control through mach3 then the spindle will start & machine should move to its first cutting position,
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby jarm2 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:34 pm

I have used home to mean a position over the material at 0,0,1". I understand what you mean about homing to the home switches, but have never gotten in the habit of using that. I will keep using the top of material for my zero reference since that has been working for me for several years and many two-sided and single sided carvings. Thanks again for your insight. You are one of the most dependable responders on this forum and your advice is usually spot on.
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Re: Setting zero for 2 sided referencing same side

Postby martin54 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Thanks for that comment, knowing that someone has benefited from an answer I have posted makes it all worth doing :lol: :lol:

As for the machine set up I home my machine when I first switch it on, once I have done that I jog the machine to where the work piece is located on the table & set the x, y & z positions for my material block. If you watch the mach3 tutorials they refer to this as the work co-ordinate system which are what G54 through to G59 are. Once these are set I can get back to them at any time by pressing go to zero rather than reference all home.
The advantage of working this way is that if for any reason your machine loses its position (power failure, lost steps etc) it is very easy to get back to your original material 0,0,0. If I am running a very long job I can switch the machine off before I go home knowing I can easily resume at a latter time as long as I know the line of code to start from :lol: :lol:
I can save & store work co-ordinates for latter use, if I am doing repeat work I will make up a jig to fit in a certain spot on the spoilboard, using the saved work co-ordinates I know that the 0,0,0 settings are going to be spot on everytime :lol: :lol:

If you are happy with the way you work & it works for you then that's fine, lots of different ways to make things work. When I first started using mach3 I watched all the mach3 tutorials & went from there, although I am not using mach3 anymore the control software I use now works pretty much the same way :lol: :lol: :lol:
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