Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

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NCFatboy

Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by NCFatboy »

Thanks all for your replies, I apologize if my posts were viewed as incendiary and did not mean to be. It's the simple truth in my experience. No, I have not watched every tutorial. Yes, I have watched some. Yes, I had the Aspire PDF Manual open and read most all that applied to my needs in what I was trying to accomplish. Perhaps I am using a hammer when I should have a saw, but I was just looking for some assistance with the STL import features of the product with respect to the 3D capability.

As I check again, if that is the function of the area select (which I tried and see it is) I apologize for calling it buggy. I did miss that in the manual. Just because I am trying to use Aspire to do something it is not intended for does not mean my expectations for an STL file import is necessarily ignorant. I do not own the machine, a friend does, and he has owned it for a number of years, but he and his 80 year old father (the actual owner) use simply Partworks. Have not even opened Aspire to experiment.

While expecting an STL file to accurate might be ridiculous, I understand the differences in parametric and mesh construction, at least at a basic measure somewhat consistent if it was actually using the STL. We all know now it converts it (I did contact Vectric, after contacting Shopbot support, who's response was "I don't know how the STL and autopathing works, I only know the results of using them". Vectric answered my basic question on the import of the STL, but kindly refused to do any more due to my email address not being a 'registered' owner of the software), to begin with I did not know it was converted at all.

As many times happens on the internet, my post was to understand better from the experts, what and how the STL import AND Autopathing worked so I could determine if what I was experiencing would be expected or I was missing something. I will re-read my original to post to see how I communicated and what I can improve in the future. By many times on the internet, I mean, I didn't ask if I should be using 3D autopathing or do it in 2D pathing, I knew that coming in that I could do 2D. I was checking out the 3D capabilities and looking for expert knowledge, not a solution to how to do my project or if I was stupid or idiotic for using 3D when it was a simple 2D (or 2.5D, no, I haven't actually looked up the precise definition of that terminology, but I suspect it is as it is really two-sided 2D with height, which is what I suspect 2.5D will turn out to be). And yes, I am sure I have been guilty more than I would care to admit to doing the same thing in forums which to the experienced people seems like someone trying to use a stick when they should be using a stone.

With that in mind, I sincerely apologize for and offense to anyone including Vectric and Aspire and I will leave my posts as they are above simply to make all the comments make sense, including this one. It is very easy online to inadvertently be unkind, misunderstood and or villify someone unjustly, I certainly have in my posts above with respect to my expectations coming into using Aspire's STL import, and the results I expected. Clearly, my expectations were WRONG. That is not intended to bash Aspire since it functions as designed, not to my expectations. I hope to utilize the knowledge in the individuals on this board.

I am truly sorry for creating any issue, as the title of the post indicates, I am new and was particularly interested in 3D STL imports. I'm not a bible carryer, but crushing someone for not knowing a book of the bible (tutorial), or a verse of the bible (perhaps that setting that stops the bitmap image that I am trying to use as a guide from disappearing) doesn't always mean they're a bad person. I hope you can forgive me for my faults and I will try to do better. Quite a warm welcome I created for myself. :)

Rcnewcomb, those are absolutely stunning, the kind of examples I very much enjoy seeing. Are those your own created 3D features? Did you make them in Aspire?

(edited to change experience to experienced and exception to expectations. Gotta love some autocorrect.)
Last edited by NCFatboy on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

NCFatboy

Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by NCFatboy »

Oh, and by the way, as a programmer myself, I do appreciate Aspire's capabilities and features, even if personally I find some UI things somewhat strange. :)

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by Rcnewcomb »

Rcnewcomb, those are absolutely stunning, the kind of examples I very much enjoy seeing. Are those your own created 3D features? Did you make them in Aspire?
The wedding plaque was created by me using Aspire. The other pieces were done by other forum members. The photos came from the photo gallery on the Vectric.com site.

I'm still impressed by the life-size chess pieces that Jim McGrew made. These were created and produced using Aspire along with other software packages.
Image
- Randall Newcomb
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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by dealguy11 »

My response was probably harsher than warranted. I usually try to be more helpful than that. Had a bad evening and was not in the right mood to respond.

Best of luck with your 3d experiments. Trying new things, and failing or succeeding at the edge of your knowledge envelope is the best way to learn in my experience. The issue you're fighting with is a couple of things. First is the inaccuracy of triangulated models, which are an approximation of whatever solid they are based on. Second is the the nature of Aspire models, which are surface models using a pixelated height map to model the the shape, which again is an approximation. While this approach makes modeling and machining organic models like those shown by Randall much easier, they are not well suited for models that have true verticals and sharp lines. Neither approach is based on whatever mathematical model was used to generate the original solid. The combination of the two approximations is almost certain to produce anomalies, some relatively large. As you also discovered, 3d carving toolpaths can take a long time to cut. 2d models, based on true vectors, don't suffer from these issues.

I'm having a similar issue with a customer who has generated mathematical models of kayak paddles that they want carved. Frankly, we would be more successful if they just provided me with a series of vectors that I could use to generate 2-rail sweeps directly in Aspire, but they insist on giving me the whole model. Even at very high triangle counts, there is a limit to how close I can get to "perfect" (and really, they're sanding it after machining so how perfect does it need to be?). This is a situation where another tool might be better suited to the problem. Perhaps yours is the same.
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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by LittleGreyMan »

My answer was probably also too harsh, partly because English is not my mother language, but I must confess I didn't tried to be kind :)

We are all grown-ups, so I hope we all can deal with that, as long as you try explaining your problem and we try to help, which is the main goal of this forum.

I know your part is confidential, but as you use a parametric CAD, you are probably able to make a copy and change quickly some parameters to create a different part with the same issues you encounter. So you can post this one and we can give more relevant advice.
Best regards

Didier

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NCFatboy

Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by NCFatboy »

All forgiven guys, we have bad days and things happen. I should have at least provided this image, it's not what I am trying to carve, but illustrates the issue with the zero plane when importing an STL. I don't think you can carve anything with the 3D features of Aspire that has this crossing of the zero plane. Where can the z-plane be positioned? :)
Screen Shot 2018-02-20 at 9.36.25 AM.png

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by adze_cnc »

If that image shows an object as rectilinear as it appears then why bother using an STL (STEP, IGES, 3DM, etc.) file at all? Why not lay it out it is as 4 vector paths and cut it using a combination of pocket and profile toolpaths?

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by Rcnewcomb »

Why not lay it out it is as 4 vector paths and cut it using a combination of pocket and profile toolpaths?
As he stated earlier, he is the downstream recipient of what the customer is generating on his own CAD system.
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10 fingers in, 10 fingers out, another good day in the shop

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by adze_cnc »

Randall,

I re-read the start of this thread and found that I was thrown off by the OP saying:
I have a parametric CAD design that can render any type of file for machining...
So, I figured if you can pull off any format from your model why not all 2D instead of STL?

Steven

NCFatboy

Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by NCFatboy »

I don't know, just thinking in 3D. Would a CNC manufacturing company base their toolpathing on a 2D (is that dxf?) export? I was originally on the path of injection molded plastic, which is how I got to STEP and not 2D.

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by Adrian »

CNC machining is nearly always done as 2D with the third dimension being the depth the tool cuts to. 3D for parts of the type you've mentioned is more for 3D printing or moulding as you suggest.

NCFatboy

Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by NCFatboy »

Adrian,

Why do all the service providers seem to request STEP files?

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by ger21 »

It depends on the type of industry, and the type of parts or models you are dealing with.
For a shop that uses Solidworks or similar parametric CAD, .Step files may be the best format.
I'b been programming CNC Routers for 20 years, and have used 2D .dxf files for 99.9 % of the work we do.
Gerry - http://www.thecncwoodworker.com

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by Adrian »

NCFatboy wrote:Adrian,

Why do all the service providers seem to request STEP files?
Depends on the level of services they provide in one respect. I do 3D printing and traditional (non-3D) CNC. I ask for STL, STEP, SKP etc for the former and DXF,DWG,PDF etc for the latter. I could easily take 3D formats for all of it and generate the flat 2D vectors from that (Aspire/VCarve will do that automatically for Sketchup imports) but the CNC customers are far more used to working in traditional 2D CAD and supplying drawings that way.

It can be a field with a steep learning curve with each company doing things their own way. I was involved in developing add-ons for Sketchup back in the @Last days before Google took over so I know that product really well and I've been using Vectric products since 2005. I recently started learning other design software and it's driving me nuts as it's interface makes no sense to me at all but I know many people love it and think that Sketchup and Vectric are weird. It's just what you get used to.

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Re: Hi, I'm new and playing with 3D STL file imports

Post by TSM2018 »

From NCFatboy, February 20, 2018 10:43 am illustration?

Doesn't flipping the board for the pockets accomplish a work around?

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