3D Models for CNC

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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Makingtoothpicks » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:47 am

redwood wrote:Don't be sorry Crows. I also don't know the legitimacy of these models, one way or another. Nor do I know how to research whether they are or not legitimate. I would love to know other known sources besides Design and Make that have anywhere near the number of models as these guys have. I've actually bought more D&M models then from any other source, but often, they don't have what I'm looking for.


I have the same problem. I buy very few models from E-bay sellers.I do look at what is available . I see many of the same models in different collections and different sellers. So who made the original. I am aware of the FB seller and he rants at the people that buy his collection to not give or sell "his models". The biggest problem I have is getting models to do what I want . I am mostly interested in Heraldry. Getting a good collection is hard. ( I am not a modeler) D&M has a few. Some I make a feeble attempt at myself. I have Vcarve Pro 9 and can only import 1 stl at a time making it even harder. I have no answers but lots of questions. LoL
There are very few places to get the correct file type and less if you are as focused as I tend to be.

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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Xxray » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:12 am

TReischl wrote:I really do not like this sort of thing.

First, someone allegedly posts on FB that an individual is selling pirated models on some forum or other.

Then, someone repeats what they read from a FB post.

Finally, a person announces that they will not purchase because of it.

Are you kidding me? It is the internet folks! All sorts of people post all kinds of inaccurate information. It never occurs to some people that a competitor or someone who just plain does not like the person posts some trash in the hopes of damaging that individual or the business.

I do not sell models, I have no connection whatsoever to anyone who does. Getting tried and convicted on the internet by a bunch of nameless faceless people is ridiculous.



The guy is a thief, you really think 1 guy is going to make 1,000 nice models and sell them dirt cheap ?

This one look familiar ?
(Link removed)

It should, he stole it from Vectric.
https://www.vectorart3d.com/store/?Fuse ... l&ID=50250

This one too
(Link removed)

I noticed at least 3 others, and thats just up to the 2nd page of of 15 [with 192 items on each page].

Stone cold crook, I have reported him many times in the past, unless its Rolex ebay doesn't seem to care.
If he got $1 from me it would be $1 too much.

I repeat, ... is a shameless thief, very bold one too.

And if it sounds like I am trashing him in hopes of damaging him and his pirating "business", thats because I AM !
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby martin54 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:55 am

Just to totally confuse things I actually agree with both of you :lol: :lol:

I think Ted makes a good point, you shouldn't brand someone as being guilty of something just because you read it on a forum or a facebook post. Take on board what has been posted & maybe use it as part of your research but don't count 100% on what has been said unless there is evidence to prove it.

Doug, this seller is clearly selling pirated models which you have shown with the examples you posted I think Ted would agree that this particular person should be avoided & not bought from, having said that there are always going to be people who don't care where their models come from as long as they are cheap so posting stuff like this is just helping those people buy cheap models :lol: :lol:

I would also imagine that sellers like this guy have multiple accounts so just because you boycott one seller doesn't mean that you are not buying from the same person, if someone is selling models really cheaply then it is most likely they are copied or pirated from else where, we all know the time it takes to create a model from scratch.
Problem with places like ebay is that you will hardly ever know for sure that the original designer is going to get credit for your purchase, I have the same problems as everyone else when it comes to trying to decide what to buy & what not to :lol: :lol: :lol:

Working as a signmaker I get people coming in with Vehicle layout sheets from another sign Company asking if I can Copy their layout & do it cheaper than the price that Company has quoted, I just tell them I can't copy someone elses design for copyright reasons & offer to look at doing a different design.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Bob Reda » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:48 pm

I once told James Booth a lot of his models was showing up on ebay. There were probably 30 or 40 of his models. The problem was he would have to take legal action on each of them. It couldn't just say take them all down, but each one of them had to be fought.
That's why there are so many on ebay.

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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Xxray » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 pm

martin54 wrote:Just to totally confuse things I actually agree with both of you :lol: :lol:

I think Ted makes a good point, you shouldn't brand someone as being guilty of something just because you read it on a forum or a facebook post. Take on board what has been posted & maybe use it as part of your research but don't count 100% on what has been said unless there is evidence to prove it.


May be true, but before someone makes a blanket declaration that someone is innocent and being unjustly persecuted, they need to do some basic research first and apply a little common sense.
No one guy is going to make 1,000+ nice models and sell them dirt cheap on ebay and facebook, clue #1.
And it takes very little effort to browse through their models and find pilfered ones, #2.

I am not censoring anyone who didn't know or has bought from him before - Now that they know, if anyone buys from him now they are a cheap excuse for a human being, and I hope that bad karma bites them on the azz.

Doug, this seller is clearly selling pirated models which you have shown with the examples you posted I think Ted would agree that this particular person should be avoided & not bought from, having said that there are always going to be people who don't care where their models come from as long as they are cheap so posting stuff like this is just helping those people buy cheap models :lol: :lol:


Sure, some people will buy regardless of source as long as the price is right, maybe even a majority.
Not much to be done about that, if a man can sleep well at night after supporting a cheap pirating shyster to save a few bucks, that is on him not me.
I don't agree that publicizing a scant few of many of his many ripoffs is helping anyone here, anyone interested could have googled him up from the 1st post and then had no idea he was a crook unless someone posted otherwise. People were unknowingly giving him the thumbs up and defending him, I am here for a counterpoint - You really think I should have zipped my lip and let that slide ?
Maybe if a dozen people reported him to ebay something would be done, who knows.

I would also imagine that sellers like this guy have multiple accounts so just because you boycott one seller doesn't mean that you are not buying from the same person, if someone is selling models really cheaply then it is most likely they are copied or pirated from else where, we all know the time it takes to create a model from scratch.
Problem with places like ebay is that you will hardly ever know for sure that the original designer is going to get credit for your purchase, I have the same problems as everyone else when it comes to trying to decide what to buy & what not to :lol: :lol: :lol:


This guy has been around a while, at least a couple of years. Same location, same style. Same name, though it stands to reason that he has backup accounts in case one gets banned, nature of the game.
Its not a matter of "boycotting" to me per se - I wouldn't buy a stolen motorcycle or gun on the streets, I wouldn't buy a pilfered model or software program either.
I'm far from a saint but an adult thief rankles me to the bone, aside from pedophiles, can't get much lower than that IMO.
So its a matter of principles for me, yes there are other scammers I am sure, no my stance is not going to have an effect on their crass actions. I noticed most seem to be located in Russia or eastern Europe.


Bob Reda wrote:I once told James Booth a lot of his models was showing up on ebay. There were probably 30 or 40 of his models. The problem was he would have to take legal action on each of them. It couldn't just say take them all down, but each one of them had to be fought.
That's why there are so many on ebay.

Bob


I did too, about a year ago.
He said staff was well aware of the problem and they were frustrated and at their wits end what to do.
Would seem a simple matter for ebay to verify multiple copyright violations and shut down the account, they are facilitating theft in a big way.
Why they refuse to act is anyones guess, I think 3D models are very low profile to them, they are content to ignore the situation cause there is no bad publicity or heat on them the way there is when major name brands are involved.

I don't know the dynamics of suing an outfit like ebay, I'm sure they are well protected with caveats and have a bevy of lawyers ready to go, claiming that they are only a 3rd party venue that facilitates transactions between private individuals and that they are not responsible for those transactions.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby TReischl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:24 pm

Xxray wrote:
May be true, but before someone makes a blanket declaration that someone is innocent and being unjustly persecuted, they need to do some basic research first and apply a little common sense.


But it is ok to make a blanket declaration that someone is guilty right? Then they have to prove to you that they are innocent. That is an interesting attitude.

You have decided that because he has around 1000 models he could not possibly have created them himself. To your way of thinking that is "common sense". Uh huh. Did it ever occur to you that he might be cutting deals with others? Did you notice that a lot of his stuff is obviously scanned from objects that are readily available?

Try googling "zodia sundial". You will come up with scores of that design. They look exactly like the model being sold. If that guy has a scanner it is child's play to create that model. That sundial design is so ancient it is obviously in the public domain.

It is entirely possible the guy is a "thief", but you have not provided any proof of that other than to announce that using your "common sense" you have arrived at that conclusion.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby TReischl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:05 pm

I have been doing a little snooping around the internet. Interesting.

This was found on TurboSquid:

Capture.JPG


Obviously no one sat around modeling that by hand. It was no doubt scanned. Keep in mind that there are some very high end scanners out there that are capable of incredible work.

The point is, if an object is really old and in the public somewhere, anyone can scan it, create a model, and then sell it. There is no "prior art" when it comes to scanning objects that were created a long time ago. IIRC, 87 years comes to mind, could be wrong about that.

A lot of the art sold by Vectric is obviously original work, not a scan of some antique. But interestingly, when I browsed the website in question, I found none of that. Lots of old stuff though.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby TReischl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:50 pm

I did find one model that is apparently a copy. It is one we are all familiar with, a deer standing in a woods.

However. . . .

This brings up a question, are both of these models scans of an existing carving?

Here are the images:

3Capture.JPG


v1.JPG


I honestly do not know the answer to that question, not from just looking at them.

What I find interesting is that if someone were to be wholesale copying models, why don't we see all the other good stuff that is on VectorArt3D? Why would the thief only steal one or a few items?s

It is too easy to just announce someone is a thief without knowing the facts.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby TReischl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:54 pm

And then, I am going to toss this in for reflection:

There are countries in the world that do not recognize copyright laws at all.

Then there are ones who's laws are quite different than US laws (not sure these are even copyrighted in the US to begin with).

So, if a person living in a country without copyright laws copies something. . . . uh huh, what makes him a thief? Just because our laws say so? He does not live here, our laws do not apply. In his mind, he has done nothing wrong.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Xxray » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:18 pm

TReischl wrote:
Xxray wrote:
May be true, but before someone makes a blanket declaration that someone is innocent and being unjustly persecuted, they need to do some basic research first and apply a little common sense.


But it is ok to make a blanket declaration that someone is guilty right? Then they have to prove to you that they are innocent. That is an interesting attitude.

You have decided that because he has around 1000 models he could not possibly have created them himself. To your way of thinking that is "common sense". Uh huh. Did it ever occur to you that he might be cutting deals with others? Did you notice that a lot of his stuff is obviously scanned from objects that are readily available?

Try googling "zodia sundial". You will come up with scores of that design. They look exactly like the model being sold. If that guy has a scanner it is child's play to create that model. That sundial design is so ancient it is obviously in the public domain.

It is entirely possible the guy is a "thief", but you have not provided any proof of that other than to announce that using your "common sense" you have arrived at that conclusion.


I didn't say that every single model he offers if pilfered, because I don't know that.
I personally recognized at least 5 models on the 1st 2 pages of 15 that were pilfered from Vectric, provided links to 2 of them, and you are still in doubt ?

Very charitable person you are, willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a proven crook.
I will say this - He used to offer dozens of models instead of 1,000's, almost all of them Vectric [and you will notice all of his auction titles still have "vectric/aspire" in them]. Now he has branched out, has he suddenly acquired skills/very expensive equipment that he lacked last year, or is he just pilfering everything he can find ? I'll go with the 2nd scenario unless proven otherwise due to his already proven pirating skills.

* Vectrics sundial model in public domain because it is old hmmm,, don't know about that.
I guess Vectric staff would have to clarify that one.

* May not be breaking any laws in Russia ,,, Am doubting that one too.
If true though, he is breaking US laws [and ebay laws] selling copyrighted models as his own, probably also breaking ebay rules by selling via email links.

* Maybe he cut a deal with vectric and others to sell their designs.
Really, we don't need to digress into rank conspiracy theories over this, but I guess Vectric staff could clarify that one too easy enough.
[Didn't you see the part where I said I messaged Booth about this and he said he was well aware of the theft but unable to stop it ? Do you think I am making this stuff up ?]
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby TReischl » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:38 pm

If you were ever falsely accused of something, I am exactly the person you would want on your jury.

The point about the sundial is that it has been around forever. That exact design. Of course it looks like Jame's model. So do the real ones being sold on the internet. Anyone could scan that dial into their software and it would look just like Jame's.

Interesting that you state he is a "proven crook". When was that "proven"? By whom, you?

In fact, from where you sit, you know absolutely nothing about how he runs his business. You do not even know where he is located. You seem to think he is in Russia. But you do not actually know that.

If he is in a country that does not have copyright laws or ones that are different he is not breaking any US laws. If you believe that, then you are breaking all sorts of laws that exist in other countries that we do not have in the US.

I am thinking he is operating out of a country without copyright laws. The reason for that is I found two models, one is based on a Disney character, the other is the Harley logo. Those companies are both known for aggressively defending their copyrights. They have the lawyers and the deep pockets to pursue such violations. They are also extremely good at finding violations.

Then you bring up another issue, eBay itself. eBay would not expose itself to a lawsuit out of laziness as you stated earlier, they are also a large company with deep pockets.

From where any of us sit, we have no idea what is actually going on, and that is why I do not accuse people of things I have no real first hand knowledge of.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby Xxray » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:58 am

The only ones that could really clarify your pirating excuses are the Vectric staff, they have not weighed in [but removed the pirate links I posted] ,,, So we can go back and forth all day long to little avail.
I'll stand by my contention that he is a cheap and shameless thief, you stand on record as thinking otherwise, hows about in lieu of any further info, we leave it at that ?
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby alan254 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:02 pm

Nothing in life is free.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby adze_cnc » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:04 pm

alan254 wrote:Nothing in life is free.


Gravity.
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Re: 3D Models for CNC

Postby larrybadgett » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:52 pm

adze_cnc wrote:
alan254 wrote:Nothing in life is free.


Gravity.


In regards to the aging of the human body, gravity is rather expensive! :wink:
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