General question - Sinage / plaque material

[ampapa]

What kind of materials are people using for cutting signs or plaques?

I'm finding that getting high detail on small plaques is next to impossible in wood but mdf is better, still not great is there a better material that I can use?

If I also wanted to cut some outdoor signage/welcome signs what are people using for those projects, anything that holds up well to the elements?

VB,

[dealguy11]

For outdoor signs, HDU is what I use most of the time (available from sign supply companies). It's not inexpensive, but as long as it is properly supported it stands up well to the elements.

For small plaques, HDU could work as well. Also consider Corian if you can get it. A local countertop company might have cut-offs they would sell you, or I know you can get small pieces on ebay. For larger pieces, might be easier to get knock-off brands as you need a certification to buy Corian directly- I think Home Depot sells a similar material.

[martin54]

Could be a lot of different reasons why you are having problems, if you have a look at some of the small stuff that Scott55 has done in different types of wood it is certainly possible to achieve a high level of detail, this is one of the latest posts but do a search as there are others he has posted.

http://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24921

As for the outdoor signs I don't make any outdoor dimensional signs but what ever base material you use a lot will depend on what you use for finishing products & how well you can apply them, I don't get asked about outdoor signs that require any type of machining which is just as well because I can't paint to a high enough standard

[Mobius]

...as you need a certification to buy Corian directly

I don't believe this is the case anymore. I recently called up the Canadian distributor, and they were perfectly happy to sell me any Corian product without any such certification.

[ampapa]

Thanks for the reply's.

Dealguy11, what kind of feed/speeds and bits are you using when cutting HDU, does it mill like MDF? Also, does it require a plywood backing, etc. if using for external usage?

Martin54, I stand corrected... those are some incredible pieces of work! I can see its not about the material but more about the bit that I'm using. As usual the trade off that I see is time, the more detail required the more time its going to take to cut.

Is there a feed/speed chart around for engraving bits, seems like its a totally different world than flat sheet milling.

ampapa,

[COWBOY1296]

i dont do a lot of out side signs but make a log of 3-d plaques. I primarily work with cherry and black walnut.

[flatheadyoungin]

On my phone so short reply

We had some quarter sawn oak...hard to see the v carve letters

Ran the exact same lettering on some nicely figured cherry and the letters were easily distinguishable

Sign foam nice but $$$

The angle of your v bit plays a factor too if you are using v bit

[Phil]

I've made many outdoor signs with PVC, there are a number of brands. It's available at Home Depot any other stores. It carves great, holds paint very well and holds up well outdoors. I've made signs withe the face painted first and V-carved after and signs where the face is left white and the letters painted after. It's available in 1" x 4", 6", 8", 10" and 12" as well as 4' x 8' sheets. I haven't found that the more expensive brand, AZEK, is any better than the cheaper brand.

Phil

[scottp55]

Cherry,Hard Maple, and Black Walnut are all good for interior.
Dense,close pored woods are generally best for fine detail and small fonts.
On Maple, running the toolpath twice will pretty much eliminate most sanding and fuzzies.
scott

[ampapa]

Phil, what's this PVC I assume its sheet goods..? I'd like to swing by the Depot and grab some for a try..

I might also like to try some HDU/Sign foam, seems like its the product for outdoor signage hands down.

Does anyone have any specifics on the HDU process and or maybe some "how to's" U-Tube links?

ampapa,

[martin54]

Phil, what's this PVC I assume its sheet goods..? I'd like to swing by the Depot and grab some for a try..

I might also like to try some HDU/Sign foam, seems like its the product for outdoor signage hands down.

Does anyone have any specifics on the HDU process and or maybe some "how to's" U-Tube links?

ampapa,

PVC is a plastic it is used extensively in the Building Industry which is why places like Home Depot sell it, do a google search for PVC sheet & you will get a good idea of some of its uses. Lots of different manufacturers, will be sold by sign supply companies as well as builders merchants.
Not something that I would generally use personally because there can be problems with expansion & contraction due to temperate changes with it being a plastic, not 100% sure but I think there is also a wider choice over your side of the pond which can make a difference. Plus I would normally be using full sheets of material rather than smaller bits.

Wouldn't have thought it would be suitable for plaques but then maybe my idea of plaques & yours are completely different

[Phil]

You can buy PVC in a small quantity, so if you want to experiment with a plastic it won't break the bank. HDU is usually only available in 4' x 8' sheets and costs around $10 and up per square foot.
As far as expansion of the material is concerned I checked both PVC and HDU and found the the modulus of elasticity (which is used to determine how much a material expands with temperature change) is nearly identical for both. The sites listed below will provide much information on these products.
HDU http://signfoam.com/
PVC http://www.azek.com/

Phil

[scottp55]

NOT a signmaker, but thought this thread and the pics of HDU hai damage was good.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showth ... -longevity
scott

[FixitMike]

"the the modulus of elasticity (which is used to determine how much a material expands with temperature change"
Phil

Sorry Phil, but the modulus of elasticity is the "spring rate" or how much a material deflects when a force is applied to it.
How much it moves with temperature change is the thermal expansion coefficient.

[Mike-S]

How much it moves with temperature change is the thermal expansion coefficient.

Right, and PVC moves A LOT ! Especially if colored dark and in the sun.