Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

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Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby LonePine » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:52 pm

Hi,

Ive been using Aspspire form a few years now and there is one problem that still has me perplexed. All of the components that I machine look fabulous with beautiful surfaces except for the vertical (or nearly vertical ) surfaces. As you can see in the image below, Aspire seems to create "Jaggy" vertical faces regardless of the resolution of the project. I often will create components from smooth vectors. Aspire will always translate this into the jaggy vertical faces shown below. I know thereMUST be a machining or creation strategy that deals with this issue.

What is the proper technique either for creation, or for machining to make sure that Vertical and nearly vertical surfaces are as "smooth" as the rest of the component?




Image
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby PaulRowntree » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:50 pm

Have you tried adding a zero-plane to the project? That can help clean up the area where the cutting meets a horizontal plane such as the top of the material.
I am told that defining a draft border can help with steep edges, but I have not sued this option myself.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby COWBOY1296 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:01 pm

I am interested in the replies here as well. Now if you are doing a total cut out of the component you need to have a clean profile. A lot of times when you add a profile to the component its not even close to perfect. What i do is zoom way in component/profile and node edit the profile until it is smooth and within the pixels of the component. That helps some.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby Adrian » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:41 pm

Make sure that the material size you're using is appropriate for the size of the model. If the model is 10x10 but the material is defined as 96x48 the number of pixels available to the model is much less than if the material was 12x12.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby Woodbutcher-59 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:51 pm

I think the short answer is to try and stay away from vertical edges in your 3d models.

Adding a draft angle as Paul said helps a lot, I use 15- 20 degrees on most projects.

Another strategy would be to machine vertical edges with a 2d path, although this is not always a realistic option.

Jeff
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby dealguy11 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:48 pm

The issue occurs because Aspire is a bit-map based program. Imagine your model made up of a whole bunch of points, each of which represents the head of a pin. The height of the model at any point is based on how far the pin is sticking out of the substrate. The lines you're seeing are the "pins" viewed from the side. You have a few strategies:

1. Increase the model resolution and recreate your model at the higher resolution. This makes the "pinheads" and "shafts" smaller. It doesn't help to just kick up the resolution - you have to recreate the components at that new resolution. You'll still see the pins, but they'll be smaller

2. Add draft to the model. This will now make a new set of "pins" tapering down to the substrate, so you don't see the sides any more. You may have to do a little smoothing on the drafted areas to minimize the issue.

3. Do a final 2d toolpath around the area to smooth things out. You might try using a ballnose bit, with a profile toolpath set to "Project toolpath onto 3d model"
Steve Godding
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby LonePine » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:07 pm

Hi,

thnaks for all of the responses.

Dealguy:
"1. Increase the model resolution and recreate your model at the higher resolution. This makes the "pinheads" and "shafts" smaller. It doesn't help to just kick up the resolution - you have to recreate the components at that new resolution. You'll still see the pins, but they'll be smaller"

I don't think I understand this. I created the model at scale, with Aspire set to "Very High (7x slower)" resolution. Isn't this the highest res possible???
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby ssflyer » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:07 pm

Nope. :shock:
Actually, if you hold down the shift key when clicking, "Create a new file," you get 2 more options:
Extremely High (20x slower)
Maximum (50x slower)

I think a lot of people don't realize this option is available.

That said, I think adding a zero plane and some draft should got you a lot better results, without slowing things down so much (depending on your computer, of course)
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby LonePine » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:04 pm

Hi Dealguy,

"I did. not. know that." (wow)

clarification on what you mean by add a zero plane. (please)

E
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby pete1961 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:17 pm

When 3D machining I've had a similar problem. I can say using the maximum resolution when creating my part cleaned up all of the jagged edges I encountered. So you certainly should see a significant difference. Vectric should update the software so that the 2 higher resolution options show up by default. I have often forgotten about this option after starting something to only have to go back and start over.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby dealguy11 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:39 pm

Creating a zero plane means creating a component with 0 thickness. Without it, the area around your component where there is no component defined is a bit ambiguous to Aspire. To go back to my "pin" example, it's as if your component is surrounded by an area with no pins at all, so the boundary between your component and that area is poorly defined. Creating a 0 thickness component allows Aspire to more gracefully transition from the component to the area around it. This may help you here, if you add draft to the model, because it will help smooth out the border where the drafted model hits the background. It probably won't do a lot for your original model, unless you give the zero plane a height which is equal to the top of the vertical section of your component.

Creating a zero plane is easy. Just click on "Model" on the menu bar, then click on "Add Zero Plane" about 2/3 of the way down the drop-down menu. When you go to the Modeling tab, you will now see a new component called "Zero Plane".
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby Pete Cyr » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:10 pm

Aspire doesn't do the vertical sides of a 90deg angle very well - 5-10% draft will help quite a bit. if you smooth the model as a whole it will remove some or most of the ridges left after adding draft. You really need to add a zero plane to an model - it helps Aspire calculate more accurately. If you want smoother still use smoothing in the sculpting tool to focus your efforts on the edges alone.
By varying the strength and size of your smoothing tool you can judiciously smooth all the ridges away and only modify the edge not the whole model.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby zdjg02 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:25 pm

This issue is fundamental to the way Aspire works. Near vertical faces will always have this issue.

One idea that has occurred to me (which at the very least would require significant Aspire development-and quite possibly is totally impractical) would be a capability to "rasterize" near vertical faces in the X and Y directions. In other words, much the same way Aspire calculates Z heights for each pixel in an X-Y plane, maybe there is a possibility +/- X lengths and +/- Y widths could be calculated for each pixel in the Y-Z and X-Z planes respectively. With this concept much higher resolutions could be achieved on areas of a model that have near vertical faces. Then "waterline" or "offset" machining strategies could be used to cut these near vertical faces of the part.

If the tweaks suggested in the earlier posts don't provide adequate results, then I think the only alternative would be to invest in a NURBS based solid modeler with appropriate CAM software.
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby dmthomson » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:00 am

What I've found is that this ragged edge also occurs in the carving itself. That, I don't think, is a screen resolution issue.

Even when I use a 1/16" ballnose bit with a stepover of 6%, I get these ragged edges. How does one get rid of this in the actual carving?
Don
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Re: Persistent Aspire problem. (Is it just me!?)

Postby LonePine » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:26 am

Hi all,

I took a workshop two summers ago with Jamie and Jody Oxenham.

They know a definitive answer to how to deal with this issue. I know they participate in these forums. At the workshop Jamie discussed strategies for how to deal with this problem on vertical walls of typography. I have lost my notes.

Jamie and Jody make flawless 3D stuff. I've never seen a jagged vertical wall on any of their work. If somebody put a bug in their ear, they might sound off on how they deal with this issue.

<BTW they really are brilliant makers>
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